#383 – The Benefits Of Sourcing Products In Indonesia with Wayne Thompson and Daniel Carlin
As the sun sets on another perfect day in Bali, we’re joined by the dynamic duo Wayne Thompson and Daniel Wayse, whose stories are as rich and diverse as the Indonesian archipelago itself. They share a ton of insights into the burgeoning Indonesian e-commerce scene, where the backdrop of Bali’s beaches belies a serious opportunity for global e-commerce entrepreneurs. It’s not just about the serene lifestyle; it’s about tapping into a market ripe with handcrafted goods and sustainable resources, all while navigating the challenges and rewards of running an e-commerce business from this idyllic setting.
Wayne’s journey from ice cream mogul in New York to tech entrepreneur is nothing short of fascinating, and Daniel’s evolution from sound engineer to e-commerce expert is equally compelling. Together, they’ve forged a path through the digital marketplace with Buyamia.com, bringing Indonesian craftsmanship to the world’s doorstep with a commitment to sustainability and exceptional customer service. This episode peels back the layers of logistics, payment terms, and the creation of both B2B and D2C marketplaces that empower local artisans and delight consumers.
But it’s not all about the bottom line; there’s a heartbeat to this story that resonates with social responsibility. From challenging labor exploitation to fostering fair trade, Wayne and Daniel’s platform is a catalyst for positive change. They’re not just building businesses; they’re building bridges—between Indonesian craftsmanship and global marketplaces, between economic opportunity and ethical practice. So sit back and let the tropical breeze of Bali inspire you with tales of innovation, adaptation, and the vibrant expat lifestyle that fuels the entrepreneurial spirit.
In episode 383 of the AM/PM Podcast, Kevin, Wayne, and Daniel discuss:
- 00:04 – Exploring Trade Opportunities in Indonesia
- 04:02 – Exploring Handicrafts in Bali
- 09:38 – From Ice Cream to Online Marketplace
- 13:12 – Building Successful Business in Bali
- 18:22 – Building a Concierge B2B Platform
- 21:13 – Customizable Products in Indonesia
- 26:08 – Logistics Challenges in Indonesia
- 29:37 – Sourcing Quantities for Manufacturing
- 38:15 – Fast Growth and Adaptation in Business
- 49:59 – Creating a B2B and D2C Marketplace
- 56:18 – Indonesia’s Diverse Fabric Industry
- 1:02:30 – Kevin’s Words Of Wisdom
Transcript
Kevin King:
Welcome to episode 383 of the AMPM podcast. This week, my guests are Wayne and Daniel from Bali, Indonesia. You know a lot of people are out there talking about switching their sourcing from China and looking at alternatives to save on the Trump tariff. Looking at Vietnam, maybe India, Mexico, Turkey. There’s lots of places and there’s lots of good choices, but one that’s often overlooked is Indonesia. Some of the best natural resources out there and you can get some really good, distinguished and unique items out of Indonesia, and Daniel and Wayne have a company that’s really greasing the wheels and making it super simple for you to do that. We’re going to be talking about the opportunities and how they can help you out in this episode. Enjoy this episode with Wayne and Daniel from Bali.
Kevin King:
Wayne Thompson and Daniel Carlin. Welcome to the AMPM podcast. All the way from the other side of the world, in Bali, Indonesia, how are you guys doing?
Wayne Thompson:
Oh man, it’s good. It’s good here. Nice to see you, Kevin. How are you?
Kevin King:
I’m good, good. How are you doing, Daniel?
Daniel Carlin:
All good here. Yeah, I’m looking forward to this. Thanks for having us on the show.
Kevin King:
Yeah, I’m glad to have you here. This is going to be good. I think we’re going to open a few eyes to a few things in this show and maybe give some people some alternative ways to think about what they’re doing. But before we get into that, I have to mention you guys are both in Bali, right?
Daniel Carlin:
Correct
Kevin King:
So a lot of people, Bali is one of those destinations that everybody has on their bucket list, it seems like, and now you guys are just living the dream sitting there in Bali. How long have you been in Bali?
Daniel Carlin:
Well, I’ve been here a long time actually, so this is year 9, and I’ve built a couple of ecom brands from Bali over the years, and so it really is living the dream, hanging out with my wife building businesses in a nice villa by the beach. It’s awesome.
Kevin King:
What about you Wayne?
Wayne Thompson:
Yeah for me it’s about five and a half years now. But what if I tell you my feet haven’t touched the sand in the past two years man, it’s just. You know, I drink the coconuts, but you know, and I see the beautiful scenery here. But man, I need to get off to the beach too. Dan is a surfer, so he get it in once in a while.
Kevin King:
What’s it like actually living there? Is it just overrun with tourists, or is it you know, there’s a local vibe where you expats can just hang amongst each other?
Daniel Carlin:
It’s an interesting place. We debate it constantly here in the family about, you know is Bali the right place long term and we’ve already, by the way, built a house in the mountains and are building our home, so we’re very much put down roots here. But yeah it’s, look, we live just outside the main tourism area which is Changu. It’s right, it’s called, it’s the hotspot right now and there’s 3 big centers. So you’ve got the Changu area, you’ve got Ubud, which is more sort of in the in the sort of midlands, and then you have the Uluwatu Bukit Peninsula, which is a surfing mecca spot, and all 3 a lot of tourism, for sure, and, like you said, a lot of a lot of expats. But living amongst it you tend to sort of just carve out your own little communities, you know. So you kind of, you know, we stick to a pretty local place. We’ve got the places that we go, we move around the way, the way we do, and then we try and integrate, you know, with the local community as well, at Balinese particularly.
Kevin King:
I know I was there in 2008. So it’s probably changed in the 15, 16 years since I was there quite a bit. But I remember I stayed in Ubud right on a resort, right on a rice paddies, and I remember going around and just remember the handcrafts, that just the amazing quality of like, I don’t know if they still exist, but there’s these little villages everywhere and you just pull in. I had a little local guy and he’d tell me okay, this village it’s like a gated little like square almost, and you go in and everybody in there is doing woodworking, they’re doing some sort of carving, like elaborate carving. And you go to another one, it’s all painting, and there’s all these painter artists on the side of the road selling paintings. Is all that still exists in Bali? All that handicrafts, some of us aimed at tourists, but it’s just junk, but some of it’s actually really high end quality stuff.
Wayne Thompson:
Man, yeah, it’s still here. I mean, Bali has shifted a little bit because there’s some construction that has come in over the last couple of years, so some of those little places got kind of pushed further in outwards. Nonetheless, they do exist, man, and actually we’re finding that you’ll see better quality stuff, even, and even more people participating, coming from the villages, that’s outer inwards, with their product at certain designated locations to actually sell their goods to locals and to internationals.
Kevin King:
So a lot of people, when they think of Indonesia, they don’t even know, first of all, that Bali’s actually in Indonesia. They think it’s some island like Tahiti or Hawaii or something like that. But it’s one of what’s Indonesia, like 3000 islands or something like some crazy number like that.
Wayne Thompson:
Actually 17,000 islands.
Kevin King:
That’s right. Yeah, I was way off. I know it’s way in the thousands, 17,000 islands. Bali’s just one of them, but what about? So? The handcrafts on Bali are really amazing, but that kind of goes for the whole country too, right? There’s a really subculture there of just like master craftsmen doing all kinds of cool stuff, am I right?
Daniel Carlin:
Yeah, the thing that’s worth pointing out to Kevin is like. Indonesia is not new to exporting overseas. This has been going on for decades. It’s just the way it’s being done is different to what we’re used to with Alibaba or whatever else. It’s still done by trade shows and these types of things and sourcing agents and middlemen. This is kind of how it’s been done up until this point. But all over Indonesia, especially in some of the bigger places like Java, Sumatra, these are huge populations and there’s tons of stuff being made, everything from, like you said, handcrafts, furniture, sustainable products, fabrics it’s endless. There’s so much here.
Kevin King:
Yeah, In Indonesia there’s some poverty and stuff, just like there is anywhere else, but it’s not necessarily this backwards place. Jakarta is one of the biggest cities in the world and it’s sinking. They’re actually building what a new capital. I think right now, if I recall, 270 to 300 million people. It’s almost a size in the United States. There’s actually a thriving like e-commerce and social media community there. It’s like one of the 4th, 5th, 6th, something like that Largest e-commerce in the world or something like that. There’s a lot going on.
Wayne Thompson:
Yeah, it’s actually the 4th populous country in the world, with about 200 and, I think, about 277 million people, so, yeah, quite big indeed. And actually, when it comes to commerce, they’ve been lurking in the background for a while, at 60% adaptation before COVID and about 90% now after COVID, so they’re growing quite rapidly in that space. In fact, the Bay in Capital and Google just did their annual E-Com, economy C 2023 study and put that out, and Indonesia was rated like number 1 and the number 1 space was e-commerce. So it’s really a hot market right now and.
Kevin King:
Right number 1 for like growth potential and opportunity?
Wayne Thompson:
Yes, yes, yes, exactly, and, as Dan says, there’s a wealth of, you know, for instance, raw material when you talk about oils and incense and essential oils and stuff like that, a lot of things that the world is not really, you know, explored just yet. But it’s, we’re here on the ground. So we see it, we know it.
Kevin King:
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Kevin King:
We’ll talk about what you guys are up to in just a second, but just to get a little context. What’s Wayne? What’s your background? I think you guys are going to be in the ice cream world or something. You built another tech company or something like that. What’s your? You went from scooping ice dairy to scooping money or something. What was it?
Wayne Thompson:
Well, let’s just say I double and I double. I’m a truly adventurous man and I think for me I don’t go around looking for problems to solve or somehow problems find me and I think I have that muscle and I’ve developed that muscle over time that I’m able to lean into that. So you know, I have a degree in Computer Science and Economics and you know it doesn’t serve me well that much now, the networking was cool. But you know, being here on the ground in Indonesia, it was just a wealth of knowledge I’ve learned since we started working on our project. That we’ll explain later. But yeah, double in double in ice cream, Cold Stone Creamery Franchise, the first to bring it to New York state and then after that sold out and then went to Atlanta where I bought a paving company and so I went from extreme cold to extreme hot. So you can think, walking into a blast freezer, walk-in freezer, and then end up standing out in the sun, you know, with my team of about 109 guys at his peak. And then, you know, got in 2010. And so we had to fold it because of the whole Lehman Brothers and stuff like that, and then entered the computer space and then did something in that and then left that and then just kind of came to Indonesia, man, to put my feet in the sand and drink some coconuts. And here we are. I haven’t done that,.
Kevin King:
So you’re not going to the beach, that’s what happens when you try to build a new company. Right, you don’t have time to put your feet in the sand. Daniel, and you live on the beach. Then he has no excuse, Daniel, you’re from down under, right? From Oz originally.
Daniel Carlin:
Yeah, born and bred in Sydney, Australia, was there all the way through until. But I did a lot of travel actually. So I started my after school. After I finished school I kind of worked in the film industry actually as a sound guy so I’m a sound engineer by trade did that through my 20s and then late 20s ended up and did a stint as a personal trainer. I was living around Bondi Beach, which is kind of the bubble I guess it’s equivalent to California beachside kind of thing. And yeah, I was in corporate speaking and I had a corporate health company where we went in and we did health checks and organizations and then we had a clinic network attached to that and so it was very much more of a very corporate style gear, going into the city in a suit every day.
And then about that time I met my girlfriend at the time who was from Norway. She moved down to Australia within a couple of years. We both just decided we just didn’t want to be there anymore. I’d had enough of the company I was in. Monica didn’t really like Bondi. So we actually got a webinar invite in our inbox which said learn how to make a million bucks on Amazon. And I watched this webinar and you know how it goes and this was back in 2014. They talked about it and they had a course and by the end of the webinar I had my credit card out, I bought the course. Monica had a corporate job, I still had my other business and we ended up splitting the tasks of what we need to do. So she was focused on product and suppliers and I was doing the keyword research and the list building and all the sort of logistics and other stuff. So, yeah, we launched our first product in late 2014. And it was a water filtration product, so it was kind of like a picture with a filter in it, and it really took off. Actually, like you know, I think a lot of people at that time. You know, it was still pretty early days compared to now, and so it was pretty easy to launch products and get ranked pretty quickly and start making some good money. And so only 3 months after we 3 or 4 months after we launched that first product we decided to move over here to Bali and our plan was to be nomadic and be here for a while and then other parts of the world and travel around but the business just took off and we said, well, let’s just stay here for a year. And then here we are, 8 years later and so ended up building that business up and we sold it at the start of 21. It’s one of the aggregators in the States and so, yeah, from there I took a couple of years off, being building houses and just hanging out with the family. I’ve got a young son now the girlfriend’s, now the wife Monica, and she’s the one who built the whole thing with me, and then started getting bored and thinking, okay, I’m ready for something new. And I got introduced to Wayne and when I sat down and Wayne told me what he was doing, you know I got so excited. It was like, wow, this is just an awesome opportunity. So I’ve joined forces with Wayne and completely committed to the vision. You know what we’re doing here.
Kevin King:
And that vision is Buyamia, right? Buyamia. B,U,Y,A,M,I,A dot com, and so what you guys are doing is basically for lack of a better. Just to make it simple, it’s a little bit different than this, but it’s basically the Alibaba of Indonesia in a way, with a kind of a unique twist and stuff on it. Is that fair to say?
Wayne Thompson:
That’s correct, man. So next time you don’t have to travel here to get your big door, your statue.
Kevin King:
Yeah, but that takes part of fun out of it. You know.
Wayne Thompson:
Buyamia we’ll take care of it for you. But yeah, Buyamia is the name, and for those who want to know it’s more a play on buy is like the first letter, and Mia means mine, so it’s pretty much buy one of mine. But on a marketing front it’s, you know, we can put a twist where it’s, buy a lamp, buy a table, buy some this, buy some comfort, always Buyamia. And the goal is, as you said, to simplify it. It’s kind of like the Alibaba with a concierge touch, top, heavy on sustainability and just really doubling down on great customer service. Allow you to source the best of Indonesia. We curate the best across the entire country and kind of put it together on the platform and allow people now to have an alternative to Alibaba. You know, from raw materials, of course we started with home decor products, furniture products, beauty and care and, as Dan mentioned, Indonesia is well known for fabrics all around the globe, but pretty much anything that you need from Indonesia. Man, we got you covered. We’re trying to make it aesthetically pleasing but seamless to use, and so that’s what Buyamia is.
Kevin King:
So it’s a little bit different, though. Like an Alibaba, I would go to Alibaba and I would type in I don’t know a water filtration system, and up will come all these manufacturers that make these, and then Alibaba just makes the connection. They’re basically just a middleman, a broker. And if I want to use them for escrow services or for inspections or they offer some other services. But pretty much it’s up to me from that point forward to deal with that supplier, negotiate the price, organize the shipping, the whole nine yards. But, like you said, yours is more of a concierge service because of language issues and some other things. Basically, if I come into you, we’ll talk about that in a second but I’m not going to be buying a water filtration thing, probably because that’s probably not what Indonesia is best known for. But I’m going to be buying some charcoal things to take the smell on my shoes, just dropping my shoes or whatever to take the smell out. I would come to you and say I’m looking for this and you would how’s the process work? Do you say, okay, what are you looking for? How many units, what’s your price target, what’s your quality target, all this kind of stuff? And then you go out and you have I know you said there’s like 30 plus thousand guys I don’t know if it’s products or suppliers there and on the website and you say, okay, here’s the 6 that match, and you get me some samples and then, if I like the samples, I choose to somebody and you kind of orchestrate and hold my hand the whole way, all the way along. Is that correct?
Wayne Thompson:
Yeah, pretty much it’s you know, we do end to end, so from start to finish. So we have about 30,000 now 30,000, yes, 30,000 products and over 1300 suppliers, and all of that was gained over the last 6 months. The platform we took a while to build because we have to get it right. You know how you build a platform. Something like this in the US is quite different from how you build it here in Indonesia. You mentioned something about the language barrier, but besides that, there’s a sentiment, there’s how the people behave traditionally and culture. So we had to build technology to navigate all those complexity and nuances. But what you see now is where you know. Because of that, it forced us to do more of a concierge type platform, and so the platform will do a lot of the heavy lift. But we can trip in at any given time. For instance, you log in, you find a product that you like, you add it to your basket, you submit a quote of inquiry, we send that off to the supplier, the supplier sends that back to us. That gets displayed in your buyers portal. You also get an email alert and then, if you agree with that, then you know you it’s off the races. You know you make your payment and you know the supplier start making. But besides that, if you want to communicate, we open the channel so you can communicate directly with the supplier all the while we are there using technology to monitor the conversation in more ways than one, and then we can actually step in at any given time to make sure that the process is rather smooth and not a cumbersome process for both the buyer and the supplier.
So we’re integrating a lot of AI now for translation, so that’s going to help, you know translate from any language to Indonesian and then back to you know the language of choice. So we’re doing things like that to make sure that you know it’s as seamless as a B2C. You know, I think that’s what a lot of B2B sites were missing, with a concierge touch. So end to end. So we take your all the logistics costs for you, all the QC costs, and QC for you. You know we, we curate the best of the best and we do a bit of a handhold and as much as we can.
Kevin King:
How much customization can I do? Is it I can only go with what is there, or can I customize my logo? If there’s a guy that’s got the I don’t know some really cool handcar door and I’m like, no, I don’t want to roll me on Juliet’s scene, I want a I don’t know, a Disney fairy tale scene or whatever it may be. Can you go out and get these guys to do that and make samples for me? Or is it I just got to go with, like these are the products we have from our suppliers and choose one? Or how does that process work?
Daniel Carlin:
Yeah. So the way that works is? The answer is yes. Basically we let the manufacturers and the artisans decide if they want to allow their products to be customizable. In most cases the answer is yes. So, for example, Rattan baskets come in lots of different types of colors of weave and stuff like that, so you can choose that stuff. White labeling, putting logos on and all that stuff no problem at all. Packaging no problem at all. We can help with all of that stuff along the way as well. But when it comes to customizing something like you mentioned, like a handcraft or absolutely, yes, you can customize whatever you want. It just comes down to a question of timeline and price point and all that sort of stuff. But a lot of the handmade nature of the products in Indonesia allows for that. But then you have to be extremely rigorous with QC, which is why we do it. So sorry to jump off that track, but QC is worth mentioning as well. We should talk about that.
Kevin King:
So I know Indonesia is not good for anything that requires a mold, injection, molding or any lot of electronics. That’s really not what it’s known for. It’s more the handcrafted handmade stuff. But is this truly handmade, with guys and gals sitting on the floor crafting this stuff, or is it handmade that’s made mostly by a machine? What is the true type of stuff that’s coming out of Indonesia?
Wayne Thompson:
Yeah, I say it’s a little bit of both, right, but mostly you do have those individuals that is sitting on the floor or they have a small manufacturing facility that they work out of Some lot of women doing these paintings of these statues and the guys doing the carvings and stuff, or vice versa. So you have an eclectic mix and then you have on, like Java and stuff, bigger manufacturers that they do more of the bigger type items, but the artisans, you know, they’re plenty, man, all across Indonesia. In fact, I think Bali is small potatoes to some of those bigger guys and places where they have a lot more artisans. For instance, we went to the 38th annual trade show, myself and Dan and the team, and what we saw there, man, was extraordinary. They were all from all different parts of Indonesia and you can find everything from, say, for instance, medical equipment, which you wouldn’t think of Indonesia as that, but also raw materials, for instance charcoal and coconut, biscuits and oils, and beauty and care products. It’s just a wealth of stuff that’s here and I think the thing is, you know, people don’t know about these things and what we are trying to do is to bring light to Indonesia itself but also the fact that Indonesia have great products, man, at competitive pricing and people can really have an alternative to the Alibaba’s of the world, especially if you sell on Amazon and Shopify, SD and stuff like that, and because we offer end to end, we can take care of all that stuff for them.
Kevin King:
I see it as major differentiation because right now, China is the world’s factory and so most people are going to Alibaba. Global sources are one of those which are all great and they’re finding a lot of the same stuff. Or they’re going to the Canton Fair or to Iwu or some of those. It’s the same old stuff, and a lot of people are now because of the 25% extra they call it the Trump tariff. Here, you know there’s an extra cost of goods, but Indonesia, coming into the US, doesn’t have that, so that’s an instant savings right there, but then you’re going to be finding stuff that’s unique, that’s differentiated. That’s not what you’re finding everywhere else, and I think that’s a major advantage, and I don’t know why a lot of people haven’t really paid attention to. China gets all the credit, and then people are like well, I’m tired of China, let’s look at India and Vietnam. And you know some people here in the States are like well, how about Turkey, or Europe’s Turkey? Or, in the States, we should look at Mexico, Central America, South America, because it’s closer and easier. But, like you just said, a lot of those places are great, like, especially like Mexico and South America, but the vast majority of the raw materials are still coming from the other part of the world, so they may have the labor to put it together there, and they have something on copper and there’s some stuff that’s in Mexico, but the vast majority of that stuff still has to come from Asia, and so why not just do it at the source and where you can get actually probably better quality of people that it’s been passed down in their lineage and their families for decades or for centuries actually doing this stuff? What are some of the challenges? Does everything need to go through? For people that are listening, they have to go through Jakarta, or they’re like a lot of big, major ports, you know, like China’s got a crazy number of ports all over which you can go through, or is it, you know, is it? I know there’s pickup in Bali, but does everything have to end up going to Jakarta and then get rerouted out, or is it direct from Bali to the United States or from Java to the United States or whatever? How does that work?
Wayne Thompson:
Logistics from Indonesia has never been a problem. You do have a lot of players here on the island that does logistics, and also Jakarta has. It’s a big hub, big port, and also I forgot the other island. But you know, getting stuff from Indonesia is not the problem at all. In fact, as you said, it’s 25% less, you know, for the same product or similar product coming out of China, so coming out of Indonesia, sorry. So, yeah, so Jakarta has, I think, one of the biggest ports, so some of the things get routed through there, but nonetheless they have really good logistic infrastructure that can get your goods to anywhere in the world.
Daniel Carlin:
Frankly, we also want our platform when so on Buyamia, when people make an inquiry and we go to the supplier and we come back. One of the things that we do is we get some shipping quotes before the order or production even starts, just so the person on the other end can get a feel for what the shipping is going to be, and then we do a firmer quote towards the end. So we’ve got partners we can also advise on. You know whether you’ve filled up a container or not, or whether you know what it would take to fill up the container. Maybe you need another 100 units. So we’ve got some algorithmic stuff that can help sort of figure that sort of thing out. And so, like this comes back to the concierge part, like because, for example, in the US people might not know what shipping costs or might be concerned or whether they can trust that, or they have to figure it out for themselves. That’s what we’re trying to do. We’re trying to sit in the middle as the trusted partner and really just help out both sides the buyer and the seller to make the transaction happen. And that includes things like shipping and then the QC side of it I mentioned before. It’s huge because, you know, because of the handmade nature of a lot of stuff, it’s not like China where they operate like, where they use like, for example, the standards that they use out there, like they check maybe 3%, so it’s a thousand units they may be checked, I don’t know 30 units or something like that. Here in Indonesia the QC standard is checking almost every piece, so it’s a much more detailed and rigorous QC and so what we do for the buyer is the money comes to us as the platform, we give a portion of it to the seller to start their production and whatever their costs are, and then we have a couple of QC checks through the process and each time they pass a QC they get a bit more money. So we basically just make sure that the quality is really good, because we don’t want to have a situation where container lands in the States, someone opens it up and goes this is on what I ordered. So we’re very, very rigorous on the QC and all the QC reports get uploaded into the buyer and seller platform, so the both buyer and seller know exactly where we’re up to. Our team also knows where we’re up to, and so we can just manage that whole process all the way through.
Kevin King:
You guys coordinate the whole, like getting samples and all that stuff before we go into production. So yeah, so you do. So what about quantities? Since it’s a lot of handmade, is it more ideal for 50 units, 100 units, 500 units, or can some of these places do 100,000 units?
Wayne Thompson:
So some of these places can do up to 100,000 units, if not more. It’s all about, for instance, for example, here in the island of Bali. We wouldn’t ask any of the artisans here to do that because there’s not that capacity for factory that’s here on the island, but in Java then they do have those and those companies have been shipping overseas for other brands anyway. And what a lot of people don’t know, there’s a lot of big brands that’s sourced out of Indonesia. They do it low key but they source out of Indonesia anyway in large quantities. So we’ve been here then and myself a combination of about 15 years we know where those facilities are. We have people here on the ground and we can make sure that if you want a quantity of 100,000, you can get it. And if you want a quantity, if you’re a small Amazon seller or a medium sized seller or seller on Shopify, we can facilitate your needs for half a container or for getting some stuff out to you quickly via ear transportation. So we do have all that in place and some of it. As a new startup, we are still learning on the fly, but guess what? We have to prove ourselves and we want to stick around and be here for a very long time. So it’s in common on us to do our best and to facilitate both big, large and small.
Kevin King:
So the way you guys work, since it’s a concierge service, I’m coming to you, I’m finding my charcoal, whatever thing I made out of charcoal. I’m saying I want 500 of them. You match me with a manufacturer. I say this looks good, they can do what I want. They send me a sample, I sign off on the sample and then I say I need a thousand units and you sit and the price is coming back at I don’t know $3 a unit for this thing I’m ordering. So then I send you 3000 bucks, or how does it work in China? I pay 30% down and then 70%. But since you’re basically you’re paying them out, do I just from a cash flow point of view, if I’m going to switch to Indonesia, do I got to pay you everything up front and then you dole it out and so it’s pretty safe, or am I paying you at stages?
Daniel Carlin:
So what we’re talking about here is payment terms, and so, basically, the way that we’re approaching this at this point and, like Wayne said, we’re learning, we’re building airplanes, we’re flying it right, so we’re learning on the on the fly but the way that, as we get good feedback actually, Kevin, people like yourself giving us some great feedback you know we’re doing kind of like a tiered approach to that, because it’s when you’re brand new, so someone’s coming from and this is even the same on Alibaba, when I saw something through Alibaba when you’re coming through to a factory for the first time and if you’re gonna buy like, let’s say, it’s 50 or 100 units. Generally, then yes, it’s up for 100% up front.
Kevin King:
Yeah.
Daniel Carlin:
Yeah, but of course, as you get bigger and you build trust with us as a platform and also as the seller builds trust with the buyer directly, then payment terms can get offered. So we’re gonna put some. We already have put some standardized kind of Payment terms together that, as you hit different thresholds of, for example, you know, once you get to orders of 20,000 US dollars or more, it’s only 50% down, then 25% before shipping and 25% on arrival, or something like that, and then we have various stages. So the higher, obviously, the more the value of the order is, the better to payment terms we can give. We’re also working on financing options. So Some of when you have a look at like an alley, like trade assurance, so that’s maybe not the best example some of these other players out there, like fair, you know, these guys basically can offer invoice financing On the buy side, but also the sell side. Yeah, factoring it. So we’re working on that now through our payment gateway that we’re using. They have a product that allows that, so we’re just working on getting the scale we need to then qualify for those programs so we can then extend those to our buyers and sellers. So, yeah, our job, you know, is to just whatever we’ve got to do to figure out how to support both sides. Is we’re up? What about?
Kevin King:
So your fees, I saw and some of your literature are about 25 to 30% or so of so if in this example, where I’m buying a thousand units of this charcoal for $3 a piece, that’s a $3000, since it’s a small order, I’m gonna probably just have to send you the whole three thousand, because it’s pretty, pretty small, which I should be able to do. And then on top of that you’re charging a 10% commission and then, like I think, a sourcing, one-time sourcing fee of like 10%, and then I think it goes down to 5% on subsequent orders, and then there’s Something for handling the logistics, like was I think it was 8%, and something a little fee for the quality control. So all that added up is like 25 to 30%. So instead of three grand, I’m sending you a 3800 bucks or something for this and so I just have factor that into my. But that’s gonna be my landed or Actually on top of that’s the shipping. So whatever the shipping is, so let’s say the shipping’s a thousand bucks, just for argument’s sake, so 4800 bucks. So my landed cost is, plus maybe a little bit of duties. Coming from Indonesia, call it $5 a unit or something like that. Is that basically the whole the you know general summary how it works the easiest way to break it down without there.
Daniel Carlin:
There are a few pieces like that, but the easiest way is we take 20% on the transaction. So basically, whatever you’re buying and for there’s a 20% on top, we mark up the product at the start from the, from the Seller, and then there’s a 10%. That basically works out to be 20%, and then shipping. If we do the shipping for you don’t have to use
Kevin King:
So you mark it up from the seller. So this is the price you get from the supplier. You bump that up a little bit and then you add another 10% on top of that
Daniel Carlin:
Yeah
Kevin King:
Okay
Daniel Carlin:
It’s 10% at the start. What you see is already got 10% on it, and then we judge 10% on the transaction. So basically it’s sort of shared in the buyer and seller, but it’s 20% from the very original price of the product.
Kevin King:
And that’s on every order or just the first order and it goes down on subsequent orders. Or is that negotiable? I have a product that’s taken off and I started with a thousand, and a year from now I’m ordering a hundred thousand. That’s negotiable, I’m sure.
Daniel Carlin:
Yeah, it is to start with, what we’re doing is having a first order, and then it comes down to about half that for the, for the subsequent orders and then after that, because obviously, you know, I think one of the one of the things we’re very aware of is is the same thing that happens on Ali is, once you build Relationship with the factory or a manufacturer, you just go, you just cut Ali out of it, right? Yeah, a lot of cases, you know, and so one of the things we want to do is is to provide enough service level that people want to stay on the platform. So you know, yes, you can decide to go and figure it all out by yourself and save yourself 20%, or you can go through us and let us help you do a lot of the heavy lifting and focus on just doing the selling on and the e-com side of it. You know.
Kevin King:
You don’t have agreements with the manufacturers that they sidestep you, that they’re out of the program or anything, and so you could if you want to go around. You don’t encourage that because you’re gonna have some headaches and stuff. But and I’m not saying people should do that, because there is a value in what you guys are doing I mean providing that service its hands off. Basically, it makes it pretty seamless and easy and it’s worth that.
Wayne Thompson:
Yeah, so yeah, we would. We have that and we are cultivating even more detailed plans that will, you know, kind of hold some of these suppliers that we support accountable if they break some of the rules. But nonetheless, you know we can’t stop people from doing what they, you know, want to do in suppliers, sometimes the same times, but we have safeguards in place to, you know, to try to protect the integrity of the platform and the members on it. So we, you know some of these things, you know, to be straightforward, you know we’re working on it as we go, in a sense that we will try something for 3 months only to recognize that hold on a second. We need to tweak this a little bit. So we are tinkering as we go. Nonetheless, we saw, for instance, as I told you before, within 6 months of just launch in the platform, we grew like 6000 products, 5000 products a month being uploaded to the platform. And then you know we like what 200%. Every month of suppliers just on boarding. So we are actually the first one and now the biggest B2B player here in Indonesia. So, growing that fast, you know we can miss a thing or two, which is why the tinkering is rather important in the sense that we have to look at things and then willing in house to decide for instance myself and then we meet all the time and we’re like, okay, this seemed to work last month, but it is not gonna work for the next couple of months coming by. So we’re consistently tweaking. The goal is to accommodate our customers, to meet them where they are and to make sure that Over time we build a relationship Into this to the point where we are trusted. We’re you know they find us as a valuable source and if it means that we have to adjust our rates sometimes or, you know, to facilitate you know growth, then we’re you know we were start-up we’re willing to do that.
Kevin King:
So you’re not corporate. You’re lean it, lean a nimble right now and you’re adapting at as you go. What about the threat of, like an Alibaba or someone that’s just got unlimited money in their pocket coming in? I mean, they might buy you. Maybe that’s what your goal is at some point, but what? What about them just coming again? Look at these BuyAmia guys are kind of crushing it here. Let’s Wake up and we got money and we got networks. Let’s just go in there and take it all from them.
Daniel Carlin:
It’s actually a great question because I I asked Wayne the same question when I Started to talk to Wayne about the business, because I was a little shocked. There wasn’t a big B2B player here. I was like no, come on, that can’t be right, you know. So I went out and had a look as well and both Alibaba and Amazon are invested in Indonesia in Big marketplaces here. So we have a bunch of B2C Huge marketplaces that are doing half a billion to a billion US a month turnover. Like these are huge marketplaces. Tokopedia is one, Shopee, which is out of Singapore, Lazada, which was originally Philippines. You know, these guys are all here and Amazon and Ali are making investments in those. Those are B2B or B2C, they’re B2C’s, they’re B2C’s.
Kevin King:
Because Ali’s trying to TikTok recently, you know, a few months ago, got booted out because there was a big uproar about all the hand artisans and saying this is all. These social media people are just crushing us. So they banned e-commerce on social media and then Alibaba is trying to come in and take, you know, make some agreements and see if they can weasel their way in on some of that. But it’s a big issue, but isn’t it?
Daniel Carlin:
Yeah, well, in a TikTok thing they basically the law right now is that the even all the B2C marketplaces here they’re not allowed to sell any products under a hundred US dollars per unit that come from outside has to be from Indonesia. So it’s actually been really tough for these big guys in this last little while because they’ve taken a huge hit on their revenue because they’re just not allowed to sell a lot of stuff that they were selling before. Back to, though, what uh reason why I don’t think they, some of these bigger players did it? Uh, I think a couple of them actually tried about 6 to 7 years ago, from what I can from see, from sort of researching into it. But, like Wayne mentioned at the start of the call in Indonesia, there the internet adoption was really low. It was like 50 60 percent just 4 years ago. And the artisans are spread across the massive archipelago. We’ve got here and so they’re, to actually get these people online, digitized, good listings, good photos. It’s a real, to be honest, a real pain. Like it’s not easy, it’s a heavy lift and one of the things that you know. When I spoke to Wayne initially, I was like man, this is a. This is a massive thing that we’re going after here and it’s going to be real. It’s going to be huge in terms of our workload and it has been like you know what we’ve done to this point to get the sellers on there. And now what we’re doing is even like we’ve got an ambassador here in Indonesia and she’s tasked with going and building partnerships now with all the manufacturing associations here to help us bulk on board sellers but then also to provide seller education and training and to show them how to work on the platform. You know we’re facilitating their photos. We’ve got AI tools helping to write product descriptions. You know We’ve really got to help them get online and get digitized, and I think this is also one of the reasons why I don’t think they’re going to be too quick to want to cut us out. I think we’re going to be a really valuable partner for the seller and the buyer.
Kevin King:
So do you have people on the ground, you know, two or three guys getting on a moped, going into a village and like going in to these guys that just got on the internet or still aren’t on the internet and saying, hey, uh, let me show you something here we can, we can make you some extra money Is basically just boots on the ground, just grill a marketing it basically
Wayne Thompson:
Yes, but I must say I’m on the moped going around too. You know I, as a Founder slash CEO, I think it’s absolutely necessary to put boots on the ground, your boots on the ground. So you know, this stuff has been building for the last 2 and a half years, before we even deploy it into the market, and it was hitting the pavement, the hot sun shaking hands. And one thing you know, to add to what Dan says building these relationships with these artisans, it’s not easy. They have to be able to trust you, bring you into their communities. You have to stop by there sometimes and have coffee with them, sometimes speaking with the bigger guys for hours at a time. But they know and they have your back and then they spread the word so they become your ambassadors over time and I think sometimes that’s what a lot of the big boys miss. Okay, you can throw a lot of money in, it doesn’t mean that they’re going to, you know, immediately, be comfortable with you and doing business with you. But what we’ve done is we build from the ground up. We nurtured those relationships even when COVID was going on and you know they couldn’t sell their stuff by me, was actually born during that period of time, only to find that you know what them telling us. We don’t have that access. We sell on WhatsApp, community Facebook, community Instagram. You know we want a true B2B marketplace that represent us. If you look at the site also, we have videos showing how we go to these facilities. We take videos of how they make the products we display, like meet the makers. We, we do. You know some of those stuff just to show our appreciation to the community. Um, you know of partners that we have and you know we ask them to be our liaison on the ground. So you know, yes, of course, the big guys can come in, whether they buy us out or not. I want to just make something clear right now, while I look you guys in the eyes and people are listening and Dan already knows where I’m going with this. We are coming and our intention is to be one of the biggest, not just in Asia, but across the Globe. We know our niche, we are studying the big guys, every font changes that you make on your site. We know you have the data. We don’t, but we, we are following what you are doing and we are lockstep, and our intention is to do that. So I don’t know how else to put it. Man, we’re coming and we’re not slowing down at all.
Kevin King:
This was your baby originally, Dan, as they said earlier. He came on after you guys met and saw what you were doing. Dan has, from what you’ve said, maybe I’m missing something, but he seems to have had the e-commerce experience, the sourcing, all that, and you had a little bit traditional, different path. Wayne, so how did this idea of how did you come about this? What during covid, where you just sitting around going, god damn it, I’m just gonna start me a little sourcing concierge company here and just I’m gonna go pound the pavement on my moped and talk to all these, uh, these villagers.
Wayne Thompson:
No, no, no, no, not even close.
Kevin King:
I knew I was just making something up there.
Wayne Thompson:
But yeah, not, not even close. I mean, I was really enjoying a little bit of the Bali life. You know, at one point I was so bored I decided, okay, I’m gonna start vlogging. So I put a team together and that’s how we found, you know, out about this issue. We were just going around, you know, talking to suppliers, interviewing them, kind of like the late Anthony Bourdain would do, you know, hitting up the suppliers, kind of like Discovery Channel meet the travel channel when it comes to products and suppliers. And, man, we started getting a lot of hits on that. But one young lady, she said to me well, what happened to us now, when you leave with your cameras and your crew, you know, we’re still selling our products, you know, on WhatsApp and all this. And I said nonchalantly, you know, and innocently, being innocently naive, I just simply said, yeah, just put it on some side, a B2B site, and you can still sell. And she said we don’t have one. And I thought no, no, no, that can’t be the case. And on the way back it was about two hours back to my house, I was sitting in the back and I was just kind of googling stuff and I realized that I had to hold on a second. A big country like this, almost 300 million people, do not have a B2B infrastructure or technology where Indonesia can put out their products, and they didn’t. and after doing about two and a half months of due diligence, hitting up all the logistic guys talking to them, you know I found out that wait a minute, this stuff is warranted because there’s still stuff going out of Indonesia, but what’s happening is they have sourcing agents and agencies on the ground and when international people will just, you know, kind of talk with them and they will do it for them, but there was not a platform that they could actually just look, see what they want, and it takes care of them. You know, from start to finish, and that’s where Buyamia was born and Dan just came in, you know about 4 months ago, and he has a wealth of knowledge when it comes to commerce. I mean, he built his brand. You know massively, know about sourcing from Alibaba, know about making the products, know about selling it onAmazon. So he’s at both ends right and for me, yes, of course, you know, I know a lot about the tech and all that, but to have someone like that and he’s a machine. I mean, you see him there, he’s a machine, so he brings some structure. He brings some Intelligence when it comes to commerce in our vertical and man, we’re like a family, Batman and Robin is what we call each other. It’s kind of weird sometimes when we text each other “Good morning Robin, Good morning Batman”. But man, it works and the team loves it and we’re just here to crush it, point blank period.
Kevin King:
And you’re not just doing B2B. Aren’t you doing an app or something boom see or something like that? That’s also like a D2C Indonesian market, like where they locals can buy from artisans directly. Do I have that right?
Wayne Thompson:
Yeah, yeah, yeah. So our core focus right now is B2B, because we do a couple of things that we have to button up, but the goal is to also build boom see, which is um a higher end Uh on the market for Indonesian to shop all stores and boutiques here in Indonesia. And the reason why we’re focusing on the stores right now is because they have especially individual Sellers. They have a problem with inventory management and inventory control and also when it comes to quality. A lot of these boutique stores across Indonesia are set with you know. Then they have inventory, they know how to please, you know good quality and stuff like that, and you’re they’re doing good business, but never before have a marketplace kind of just curate all of them and have it in such a way that you can purchase anything from any store in Indonesia. So our intention is to build that out also and then, you know, have that ecosystem readily available, you know, here in Indonesia. So there’s big things going on in Indonesia and there’s, you know you have two guys here, that’s you know. We know the market quite well. As I said, there’s 15 years combined here on the ground. You know both of us and you know we’re no scrub. We know our stuff and you know we’re not, you really have a little chip on our shoulder, but we’re humble guys and we mean well, and not only that, we’re solving a big problem here, man, because some of these guys, they come into Indonesia and they exploit the labor force here. You know, I hate to say it, but you know some of these guys. They work for peanuts and that’s because they did not have another way and we’re giving them an alternative. Put your products, get it, get international exposure, communicate with the buyers and then you know, you negotiate and you get, you know proper money is for your day’s work. So it’s the labor of love, man. A problem I wasn’t looking for, but it found me and here we are.
Kevin King:
One of the lead times typically, is it? You know, china is typically about 3 to 6 weeks. What are lead times for a lot of you? I know there’s variables that determine that. Well, what’s a good just ballpark lead time?
Daniel Carlin:
I would say you’re probably more 6 to 8 weeks here, mostly because of the handmade nature of a lot of things, or just what the what the capacity of these factories can do, so, to give you one example, when we’re at that last trade show, I met one supplier that they looked like a tiny supplier and they said, oh yeah, these 3 products we just we just supplied to Crate and Barrel. I was like, wow, okay, what sort of volume. And it was, it was huge volume. And I said, how long would it take you guys to produce 10,000 units of that Wooden teak stool? And they said, oh, about 3 months. So they can do production at pretty big scale. But, yeah, you do need to Factor that in, obviously. You know, and that’s part of what we do in that first step. Actually, when you make an inquiry, not only do we tell you the price depending on the volume, not only do we tell you the, the shipping estimate, but we’ll also tell you the production Timeline, and that’s one of the things that we really want to work with on on the Seller side, to make sure that they do give themselves enough room to do it, as well as enough time for us to do QC checks and then fix anything that goes along the way. So I think, at the end of the day, I would say longer than China, Um, but no big deal. Once you know what that is, you know you just. You just manage yourself accordingly.
Kevin King:
You kind of touched on it earlier, but what are some of the products that you should not expect to do in Indonesia and what are some of the products that are very ideal? Just a bullet, just a rapid fire list of don’t think you’re going to do these here. It’s not the right place for it and these are the ones you should be looking to do.
Wayne Thompson:
That’s an interesting question, I will say. When you’re trying to do maybe like these animal skins and those type of products, I think that could pose a problem. But pretty much, man, I mean.
Kevin King:
No electronics, no injection molding. That type of stuff is to stay away from for the most part, and the specialties are more the sustainable, the raw material, the coconut, the pineapple, the bamboo, that’s what I’m getting at.
Daniel Carlin:
Wood products. There’s a lot of amazing wood products here. So you mentioned mahogany before bankerize another wood. There’s 3 or 4 woods that are produced in massive quantity and a lot of different products. So woods are great, like you said. Sustainable stuff, like the bamboo, straws, grasses, rattans, a lot of the fabrics that are used, everything from hemp to linens to you name it. There’s so much of that stuff here, but the sustainability products definitely are a highlight and that’s one of the areas where we’re focused on, because we’ve got Europe planning to be completely out of plastics and other products within a few years. And I think Indonesia, from what I’ve seen, we do that stuff better than China just because of the raw materials we have here. And then when it gets into this stuff like coffee, massive, massive coffee producers here, I’d say probably bigger than Central America and places that you would already know it’s huge here in Indonesia, like it’s massive and anything. Coconut so you mentioned coconut charcoal before, like those little Shisha briquettes, that those things. We met a guy at the trade show that was shipping something like 50, 40 foot containers a month with his little charcoal bricks. You know just massive scale. And then the other ones. A lot of the spices and things. So clove, ginger, cumin, turmeric, you know, these kind of spices and stuff get shipped out of here in massive scale. So for things like a white labeling and stuff like that, those types of things like if you want to do a coffee brand, there’s so much coffee here, it’s ridiculous the samples and different flavors and you can go nuts here on coffee.
Kevin King:
And I just you said clothing linens. Or is there a cotton industry there, or is it made out of something different, or is it made out of bamboo and other fabrics?
Wayne Thompson:
Well, huge, huge, huge here. Yeah, yeah, one of the world’s number one producers of fabrics here from cotton batik, you know, coconut, bamboo fabric I’m sorry, you know they’re banana leather, pineapple leather, you know, just regular leather, it’s all here. You know, it’s just that a lot of people around the globe have not massively, you know, attempted to, you know, inquire about it or source through Indonesia. But now I think, also with you know, issues that’s happening right now. You know Indonesia is now at the forefront of growth, man, I mean. So, you know, for anyone that’s out there that’s looking for unique items, you know, here you got two guys. We’re willing to work with you. If you’re a small brand, if you, you know, in a business of starting something, you know you can just reach out to us. And one of the things we have a massive database of things that even not yet on our marketplace, that we have access to, that we can help you to build your brand. We have data, we know what’s working, we know what’s not. And then also, what I also want to say is that what we do is we use data to help our suppliers to acknowledge or see trends and then, you know, work towards those trends. You know, not just develop products that’s not going to be in demand, you know, on the world market. So we are a two-sided marketplace, but also a two-sided marketplace with a purpose, you know. We want to make sure that our buyers are well taken care of and we want to make sure that the suppliers are, you know, well taken care of, in the form of educating them, but also nurturing them when it comes to growing their business.
Kevin King:
Wayne, Dan, I really appreciate you sharing today the opportunities in Indonesia. This has been great. We could probably keep talking for quite some time here, but I think everybody listening out there, if you haven’t explored Indonesia, I think it’s worth a gander and worth taking a few minutes and having someone on your team or doing it yourself and taking a look at what you might be able to do in Indonesia, not only from a cost savings point of view on the on the terrace, but for someone that you don’t got to go into blind. I mean the guys here at Buyamia can hold your hand along the way, make sure everything goes smoothly. Any bumps in the road, they’ll take care of them. You don’t got to be stressing out and worrying. And there’s, I think, a lot of cool differentiated products that you can be first to market with that nobody else has, that they’re not going to be able to find somewhere else. I mean, you go in, like you just mentioned. Dan mentioned the Crate and Barrel. You go into Crate and Barrel. Just think about it. If you’ve been a Crate and Barrel, how unique everything in there is. And you don’t see most of that stuff you might see in what’s at store Elm. A few things maybe, Elm. There’s a couple of other places, but the vast majority of that stuff you don’t see there. I buy Crate and Barrel. I got some Crate and Barrel stuff in my house and it’s really good quality and so I think you know from an aspect of uniqueness, returned quality issues, like he said, they do almost every QC, almost every single piece, if not every single piece. I think you’d almost be ignoring the opportunity if you don’t give Buyamia a chance and actually take a look and just dabble and just see if there might be something there that works for it. So it’s Buyamia. BUYAMIA.com. If they go to the website, they’re going to get somebody else, or how do they do if they want? Like? You just offered up, wayne, that you’ll be glad to jump in and here in the beginning, while you’re growing, everything helps some people out. How would they actually reach out directly to each of you.
Wayne Thompson:
dan@buyamia, right, Dan? I think daniel@buyamia and it’s just wayne@buyamia and I think you know you get us.
Kevin King:
Buyamia.com.
Wayne Thompson:
Yeah, we’re here to help and I mean, you know, even being at the CEO and COO level, we don’t make ourselves unavailable. We are available for the person that want to purchase $5,000 or the stuff to $500,000 plus more. You know, we’re just that kind of guy.
Kevin King:
I got a guy that wants to purchase $100 million. You’re good for him too.
Daniel Carlin:
We love that guy. We also love the guy who wants to invest in the company in Asia. We’re also fundraising, so we’re also on LinkedIn. So you know, one of the things that we’ve been doing is growing by partnerships, right. So we’ve got partnerships with some of the other the big B2C marketplaces here for helping things like labeling, shipping, logistics, stuff like that. So we’re building partnerships. So if anyone’s out here listening to this that feels like they get out of value, we’d love to hear from you. You can get us on those Gmails or via email or just look us up on LinkedIn. So if you just I guess you’re putting our names at the bottom of this podcast somewhere we’re both on LinkedIn We’d be happy to hear from anyone who’s interested in partnership investment. We’re open here. We’re just keen to build this thing huge.
Kevin King:
Awesome. Well, gentlemen, I really appreciate your time. It’s been great chatting today and I’m sure we’ll chat again soon.
Wayne Thompson:
Thank you so much, Kevin. I appreciate you buddy, take care, yeah, and I’ll see you in Bali soon, right?
Kevin King:
That’s right. That’s right. I got to get back over there.
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