#439 – From Solo Hustle to Team Powerhouse: The Systemization Secrets of an 8-Figure Seller
Join us as we explore the Amazon seller journey of Michal Specian, who transformed his initial $5,000 investment into a thriving eight-figure brand. Michal shares his experiences of overcoming language barriers while attending university in Prague, launching his first Amazon product in the US sports category, and partnering with Miles to create a successful kitchen and dining brand. Discover how their Czech-inspired glassware brand expanded into European markets, utilizing Amazon’s Pan-EU program, and learn about the strategies Michal employed for systemization, team building, and scaling his business effectively.
As we shift focus, Michal reflects on his post-exit experiences and future strategies, highlighting the lessons learned from finalizing a business deal in the Canary Islands. Hear about his transition from the Amazon business model to consulting on internal operations, leveraging his background in economics and systems thinking. We discuss the evolving landscape of launching an e-commerce brand today and the importance of diversifying sales channels beyond Amazon. This chapter provides valuable insights into maintaining negotiation leverage and strategically selling a business.
Finally, we explore transformative business mindsets and the future of AI in business. Michal emphasizes the importance of working on your business rather than in it, sharing tips on systemization, mindset shifts, and delegation. Listen as we discuss how AI is reshaping business operations, with potential applications in customer service and logistics, and how it can enhance productivity and efficiency. With practical strategies for systemizing businesses and insights into the exciting potential of AI, this episode offers a comprehensive guide for entrepreneurs aiming for growth and operational freedom.
In episode 439 of the AM/PM Podcast, Kevin and Michal discuss:
- 00:00 – Amazon Seller’s Journey to 8-Figure Exit
- 02:23 – E-Commerce Experience and Launch Location
- 05:52 – Successful Sale to Aggregator Bid War
- 08:08 – Post-Exit Reflections and Future Strategies
- 12:42 – Evolving E-Commerce Brand Strategy
- 16:16 – Prioritizing Balance and Enjoyment in Business
- 21:35 – Transforming Business Mindsets and Systems
- 26:21 – Role of Supply Chain Manager in Business
- 30:00 – eCommerce Hiring Challenges and Strategies
- 32:36 – The Future of AI in Business
- 39:08 – Global Success Stories in E-Commerce
- 40:41 – Business Growth and Systemization Strategies
- 42:21 – Motivating Through the Growth Process
- 46:13 – Kevin King’s Words of Wisdom
Transcript
Kevin King:
Welcome to episode 439 of the AM/PM podcast. My guest this week is going to be talking about systemization. That’s right. We all start out as entrepreneurs, usually working by ourselves, building our business, but at some point it comes to time to actually hire people, put systems in place and really explode the business, and typically that happens around the million to million point three mark, and my guest today, Michal Specian, is going to actually talk about that. It’s going to be a great episode. I think you’re going to get a lot of good information from this and a lot of food for thought. Enjoy this episode. All right, let me see if I can get this right. Welcome to the AM/PM podcast, Michal Specian. Did I come close? At least. Did I come close at least?
Michal:
Yes, that’s pretty close. I’m happy to be here.
Kevin King:
These Czech names, you know, sometimes it’s a Czech name, right?
Michal:
Yes, yes, it’s a Czech name. Not very common, but yeah, it is a Czech name.
Kevin King:
You said you’re in Prague, Czech Republic, right?
Michal:
Yes, I’m originally from Czech Republic and I’ve been living in Prague for the last 10 years.
Kevin King:
I love Prague. I’ve been there several times. I spoke at an Amazon event there a few years ago that Augustus Kliglisk does, did a big production in Prague about 20 years ago. I remember Prague is lots of beautiful women, lots of good, cheap beer and lots of really cool architecture and castles everywhere, and I remember we did a big fashion photo shoot production there. And what’s that town? Bernie Bern?
Michal:
Berno.
Kevin King:
Berno, that’s it. Yeah, Berno, that’s not too far away. Great area, great area. I’m jealous.
Michal:
Yeah, I personally love it here. I like to travel, but I always like to come back because I feel that Prague has something special about it.
Kevin King:
You’ve been in the e-commerce game for a day or two, right? I think you started an Amazon brand around nine, ten years ago, something like that.
Michal:
Yeah, so I’ve been in the Amazon space over eight years now. Yeah, that’s when I launched my first product.
Kevin King:
And did you launch that in the US, or did you launch that in Europe?
Michal:
I launched that in the US. At the time I was at the university. I was 22 years old, so I managed to save up $5,000 and that’s how I launched my first product in the US marketplace.
Kevin King:
Awesome. So you were in university in the US or university in Europe?
Michal:
I was in university in Prague so I had no idea. I’ve never been to US at that time. So launching a product there was like a little bit of a leap but it worked out pretty well.
Kevin King:
What category was that in?
Michal:
It was in sports category. So yeah, gym equipment
Kevin King:
And that was back when it was easy to launch in 2016 easy compared to today, much easier to get reviews, much easier to launch. You could use uh, did you use one of those launch services back in the day, like Zonblast or Viral Launch or one of those of those type of things, when you started?
Michal:
No, because at the time I kind of struggled with English, so that was my biggest obstacle to even like understand what I need to do. You know, find some tutorials, but I somehow managed to do that and just put my product up. Turn on the PPC auto campaign and that’s how it all started.
Kevin King:
How did that evolve? So you started with $5,000 and then how did that evolve? Did you hit a half a million dollars or a million dollars the first year? How did it evolve and add several more SKUs, or what was the process like?
Michal:
Actually, I launched two more SKUs, but basically within the year of my launch I met my ex-business partner at this time and we started working together on another brand, so I left my first product just sticking along. They were making decent income for me, so I was at the university. It was profiting around $1,500 to $2,000 per month, which was great. But that’s when I met Miles and we started working on a new brand together and that’s when it really took off and we eventually scaled that brand to eight figures over four years.
Kevin King:
All in the US, or did you end up expanding into other markets as well?
Michal:
We expanded into the European marketplaces as well. The US was the main marketplace. What we were selling in Canada, Mexico, but UK was doing pretty well, and then eventually the rest of Europe, utilizing the Pan-EU program.
Kevin King:
And was that sports as well or a different category?
Michal:
That was a different category. It was kitchen and dining and specifically since we already sold the brand, so I’m happy to share we were selling glasses champagne flutes, wine glasses.
Kevin King:
Okay, like disposable ones or glass ones.
Michal:
Glass ones.
Kevin King:
Czech Republic is known for some of its glassware stuff. Were these like with a Czech flair to them, or are they just standard made in China glassware?
Michal:
Well, when I was developing the products, I got inspired of some of the designs we have here, but they were sourced in China. But then when we did the photo shoot, we actually did that in Prague, because I think a lot of people actually associate Prague and Czech Republic with glass. So we did that, but the products were sourced in China.
Kevin King:
So it’s just you and your partner. Did you build out a whole team to scale this to eight figures?
Michal:
Yeah, we built out a team, but a pretty small one. We had two full-time employees and basically two part-time employees, so we were focused a lot on efficiency, right. So we were really focused on systemizing the business, making it as efficient as possible, so we can just focus on launching more products and playing the Amazon game. Very straightforward business.
Kevin King:
And you exited. When did you exit? Was it to an aggregator or to a private?
Michal:
Yes to an aggregator. It was the end of 2021. So the timing was very good. At that time we didn’t know that it was the peak, but, yeah, we sold at probably the best time possible, I would say.
Kevin King:
I would say so, yeah, and the 2021 is when they were flush with cash and paying crazy multiples, sometimes four, five, six, seven, x. So when you went to sell, was it competitive? Did you have a lot of people bidding on you or did you just have someone approach you and you just went with them?
Michal:
Yeah, so initially they approached us and that’s when we got the idea, early 2021, that it’s even possible to sell the brand for more than we expected. So we started, you know, reaching out and at the end it was there was like a little bidding war over the over the brand, so we managed to increase the multiple and get a very, very good deal out of it.
Kevin King:
Is that brand still going today, or did the aggregator crash and burn it?
Michal:
It’s still going, but I wouldn’t say well. I haven’t really looked into too much detail, but I think it’s pretty common that the brands that were acquired are not doing as well as they were with the original owner.
Kevin King:
What was that process like? Going through that sale? I’m assuming if you’re eight figures, that means your sale was into the seven, maybe even, maybe even eight figures, what? What was that process like? I mean, that’s like can be life changing money for a lot of people, and then the process of just pulling all the documents together and pulling, doing all the due diligence and everything. Were you guys set very well because you had everything systemized, or was that a lot of stressful time?
Michal:
It definitely made things easier, but I want to stress out that at that point, when we were hitting those eight figures, the team was not sufficient right. If we would decide to grow further, we would have to hire. So at that point we were stretched quite thin. So during the due diligence process, during a rapid expansion, you know, just making sure that the brand doesn’t crash, before the sale, getting ready for Q4, which was always huge for the brand and going through the process was very exhausting. It took over two months and I was basically working around the clock to make sure that we have all documents, testing the products, all of that stuff, but in the end we managed to do that pretty well. With Miles, we basically were going to the Canary Islands for three weeks to finalize the deal, where we were basically sitting in one room together and making sure that everything goes through. And then, when the money got wired, it was quite unreal, to be honest, but at the end it worked out really, really well.
Kevin King:
So what did you do to celebrate? Did you stay in the Canary Islands and do something to celebrate? Or did you uh, do something, uh, just a something crazy or ridiculous, or buy something special or anything to celebrate, or you’re like, oh, just, uh, that’s nice, there’s a bunch of money in my account now, just another day.
Michal:
Yeah, so we, uh, I remember the high five you know with my, with my business partner and then we went to grab a dinner. We had, you know, Spanish paella and that’s pretty much it. I didn’t have like a specific uh goal of something to buy. He, he felt the same way, you know. So we just then spend their week, you know, just basically making sure that everything is finalized.
Kevin King:
Making sure they don’t take the money back.
Michal:
Yeah. I was then helping the aggregator with the onboarding process, educating them, teaching them about the brand for the next few months. So I wasn’t completely out of it until the end of 2021. But yeah, that was pretty much it.
Kevin King:
And so what did you do after that? Did you start another brand, or did you segue into what you’re doing now, or was there a little gap where you just took some time off and traveled or enjoyed yourself? What happened next?
Michal:
So we had this discussion with my ex-business partner and he decided to retire, so he wasn’t interested in starting another business. But I got bored pretty quickly. After like two months I already started thinking like what could be next and I was a bit, I would say, burnt out of the Amazon you know physical product business model. I felt that I needed to change something. So I started doing, you know, a few one-on-one sessions with other sellers from my network, just helping them optimize their brand. And then that’s how I eventually started what I’m doing right now, focusing on the internal operations of businesses. Because, without knowing that at that time, we were really doing very well in terms of the systems, processes and managing a remote team. And it was quite eye-opening having this conversation with the aggregator who told us that basically our way, how we manage our supply chain, our inventory, that it was very seamless for them to see how we actually manage that. But at the time I thought that everyone does it this way.
Kevin King:
When you went to university, were you studying engineering, or were you studying systems or marketing? Or where did you get the background to develop? Or was it just natural for you and Miles?
Michal:
I learned a lot from Miles. He is an engineer, so I learned a lot from him. I was studying economics, so it wasn’t uh, I didn’t really study systems and processes, but it comes very natural to me. I realized I was doing this since I was a teenager. I started playing guitar, you know, and having like a little workflow. You know how to prepare or what I was playing for an audience, what needs to be done, and I realized, like I was already creating my own little SOPs when I was 14 years old, so it came quite naturally to me.
Kevin King:
So, in the process of selling the company, what do you think the biggest lesson you learned with someone listening to this, if they’re getting ready to sell their company or getting ready to go through that process, what’s something that maybe you learned that you could share with them? What advice would you give them?
Michal:
I would say that the best advice is that the best time to sell is when you don’t need to. When you feel the pressure you need to get it out of your hands. It’s not a good time to sell. You are not in a good place to negotiate. Like we truly were in a position where we were looking at this brand and we had a real plan. You know, step by step, how to double the brand, how to get from 10 million to 20 million, and we just decided like, hey, upselling is one of the options, but when you feel like selling is the only option, you’re probably not going to get what you would otherwise get. So I think that was an important lesson. And the other one was that not like understanding that the sale might fall through right? When you start the due diligence process, there is a lot of you know milestones, when the deal can just get canceled. And if you don’t, if you don’t focus on your business, making sure that the business keeps running, you know, keep growing, keep launching products. Even though you are getting ready to sell, the business still run the business as if you were to keep it right. I think that was a big lesson because, basically, once we signed, you know the letter of intent I like okay, my job is done here. But then I was like that was a mistake. I really had to focus more on even just running and growing the brand.
Kevin King:
What would you say is the hardest thing or what’s the most different thing about launching an Amazon or e-commerce brand today, in 2025, versus when you started in 2016?
Michal:
I would say, before mastering the Amazon game, it was sufficient right If you understood how to launch product on Amazon, how all of this ins and outs, reviews, the algorithm, all of that still, of course, incredibly important, but nowadays, I would say, amazon is just one of the sales channels, so it’s no longer launching an Amazon business, it’s launching your brand and using Amazon as a sales channel, and I think even this mindset shift really changes how you then approach the business itself. Right, suddenly, I’m not an Amazon seller, I’m a brand builder. I’m looking for the best channels and I’m seeing that with many sellers that they are actually still. Amazon is the biggest sales channel. 80% of their sales is coming through there, but they’re slowly diversifying, they’re building the email list, they’re building the social media presence and really thinking in terms of a brand and a niche rather than just a product.
Kevin King:
Yeah, I think that’s one of the biggest changes. It’s now, like you said, it used to be more about just find a product and now it’s more about building that brand and building that total company. And it takes. I don’t know if you could really do what you think you could do, what you did, with five thousand dollars in today’s competitive environment on Amazon. Do you think it would take more money or do you think it just you could still do it and just be a slower grow?
Michal:
It would take more money, especially like I entered a bigger niche at that time. So I would prepare more money or be ready to enter a smaller niche right? And again, if you think in terms of the customer and the brand and you map out all of the potential products that the brand could sell to the target customer, maybe you can find a product that is like a really small niche, that you can have a smaller amount to launch your first product before you go after the big ones. But still, I think $5,000 will not be sufficient, especially when you need software to help you. You need all these, probably legal fees to start your company. So I don’t think that $5,000 would get you far nowadays.
Kevin King:
Yeah, I agree with that. I mean $5,000,. I mean it depends on what you’re doing. Like you said, if you pick a very narrow niche that doesn’t have a lot of demand, a lot of volume, and you’re not trying to actually make a living out of doing this, if you’re just a little side hustle, you might be able to start with that. But you’re going to pretty quickly need some more money, especially if you’re successful.
Michal:
At that time for me it was like unimaginable amount of money because I was making $4 per hour. So it took me basically two years of work to save up that amount, but yeah.
Kevin King:
Yeah, no, it was your life savings and you had everything on the line and that was a smart investment. It paid off big time. So when you started, it was your family like thinking like you’re crazy, you’re wasting your money. And now have they changed their tune, like, oh, all proud of how successful you were.
Michal:
Yeah, I couldn’t tell them at first. I basically told them once I wired the down payment for my first PO and they were like so like you did what you know, you wired $2,000 to China, Like what’s happening. But yeah, nowadays it’s better.
Kevin King:
Yeah, I can imagine. So how does it, though, when you exit for a large sum of money, a seven figure or higher sum of money, like you said, your partner, he just decided to retire and kick back, and you got bored. But how does it change your mindset when it comes to working? Is it you find something that you’re passionate about and then it just makes it feel like it’s not work? Or is there sometimes you’re like why am I doing this? I don’t need to do this, I’ve got some money in the bank, I’ve got some investments, I’ve got this, I don’t have to do this. How do you? How’s that mindset work?
Michal:
Yeah. So I would say that my list of priorities changed right? Before when we, when we had the Amazon business, it was very uh, like making money was the number one priority and I was willing to sacrifice basically anything, everything else on the list. So I was like making sure that we will get there. But nowadays I want to have a little bit more balance. So first of all, I want to enjoy what I do. That’s why I kind of transitioned to working with people one-on-one, because even though with physical products we had hundreds of thousands of customers, I’ve never talked to a single one of them. And now I’m talking to people, I’m meeting people, I’m going to conferences. So I think it’s just a different phase. But for me also the important part is that I can basically stop whenever I want, take a break, travel and actually choose the people I work with. If I see that someone is not a good fit, they are willing to know hey, I want to work with you, but I don’t feel the good vibe, the connection there, I just say no. And I think that’s incredibly powerful when I can do that, because it just makes the work more enjoyable.
Kevin King:
And so the work you’re doing now, it’s Scaleport right?
Michal:
Yes, I call the company Scaleport and we help sellers to systemize their businesses and build the teams, and when we do that, we basically replicate the structure we had in our business into their business. Because in its core the internal operations I learned that most businesses are very similar right At the end of the day it doesn’t matter what product it is, because all of the key functions of the business are the same.
Kevin King:
So when someone comes to you and maybe it’s not hard, especially selling on Amazon, to hit a million dollars with just one person, maybe one person by themselves could actually do that. In some cases you might have a VA or two. But one thing’s where’s that magic point where and you can get by, probably but where’s that magic point where systems really need to kick in. At a million bucks typically? Is it at 5 million bucks? Is it at 20 SKUs, 5 SKUs? Is there some magic point where people that have just kind of done this by the seat of their pants and just kind of winged it need to actually start getting serious? I mean, obviously it’d be best if they started from day one, but that’s not realistic for most people. Where is that magic point where, if you don’t wake up and start systemizing this and putting some of what’s a scale port and what you teach into place, you’re just limiting yourself tremendously?
Michal:
Yeah. So what I’ve seen so far the average is around 1.3 million in revenue. When people realize like, hey, the growth is slowing down because now I’m spending more and more time maintaining the business right? Because when you have zero products launching your first products, you are focused 100% on growth. The more products you launch, the more time you spend maintaining the business. Customer service, supply, operations, BPC suddenly starts eating more and more of your time and as you launch more products, you have a limited amount of time to keep launching, to keep growing. And around the 1.3 million is what I’ve been seeing that people basically maxed out all of their capacity on just maintaining the business. Of course I’ve talked to sellers that reached two, three million with two SKUs. So they got very far on their own. And that’s the beauty of the business model you can get very, very far on your own. But eventually people who are serious and really want to get to multiple seven figures, potentially eight figures, and exit. They need to kind of change their mindset and treat it as a real business, right, as a business with a team and processes and understanding that there should be the owner, the CEO, and not just, you know, the operator who runs the show.
Kevin King:
How hard is that for a lot of entrepreneurs to do that, to let go of that control, to let go of that, to let go and sometimes they have to work harder, to work less, because that transition can be actually more work in the beginning and then you get to back off it a little bit and it may be you actually are making less money as an owner for a period of time there because you’re starting to have to hire and pay people that money would have been going into your pocket as things transition and start to roll. So how hard is that transition for a lot of people that you work with?
Michal:
So I think it really comes down to the fear of hiring, to not having the systems and processes in place, because people kind of run their show and they’re in the middle of everything, doing everything on their own, and when they know they need help, they maybe even try to hire their VA. But the VA then relies on them heavily. They tell them what to do, when to do it, how to do it, and they review their work and more often than not they realize like hey, I better do it myself, because it’s just like so much time to even explain it. So the fear of hiring is this that they’re afraid that they have to micromanage, otherwise the person will mess things up. But when they actually have the process in place, they define what needs to be done. It’s then easier to find someone and plug them into the process and manage them and make sure that they are doing what they’re supposed to do.
Michal:
And I also noticed that people are often very surprised by the quality of candidates for a very low price, right, especially people from West, from the US, when they’re hiring. And I tell them like, hey, you can hire a really good brand manager for $14 per hour, $15 per hour, it’s possible to hire remotely, so it doesn’t have to be a six-figure salary for your team members, even though they have five years of experience, right? So I think that once we tackle the limiting beliefs, it comes easier. But, as you said, it’s very often the fear of letting go. I have this baby, you know. I spent three, four years, my blood, sweat and tears, building this and now I’m going to hand it over to this person I’ve never met. That’s a tough one.
Kevin King:
So what are the first steps? When someone hits that 1.3 and they wake they have that or whatever number they’re at, they have that wake up call like, all right, I got to get myself out of this and quit working in my business and start working on my business, what? What are the first steps that you do when you analyze? Do you do some sort of like audit of what they’re doing and then, or do you have a set system like, say, all right, step number one is let’s take off the easiest thing, you know, whatever you’re doing, customer service, let’s get that hired out. Or what’s the process like?
Michal:
So the first thing we tackle is the mindset to make sure that there are no limiting beliefs that would prevent us from going through this transformation successfully. As I said, people have these limiting beliefs that are really conditioned to be the doers, to be the operators of the business. So we need to solve that first, and we do that through a bunch of thought experiments. You know, help them understand the value of their time. You know, help them understand where they are just wasting time maintaining the business, how cheap it is to hand it over to someone else. And really understanding, getting into what I call the owner’s mindset right, to understand that as the owner business, you can buy back your time and not only can, you should do that very proactively. Once we do that, we focus on the systems right, to make sure that the business is now built as a machine with different parts and different functions. So from product development, supply, operations, marketing, we go one by one and make sure that everything is streamlined, everything runs well as a well-oiled machine, right. And once we are done we can start bringing people in, and just having the systems makes it so much easier to even define what we need like what role, because otherwise, if we don’t, we end up hiring generalists, and that is someone who we need to tell what to do, how to do it, when to do it. So it’s way better to then have this step outside of the business, see it as a machine and see where I can put this one person. That would give me a lot of my time back right. Really the easiest way to solve the labor bottleneck in the business. So once we do that, we start the hiring process and that’s where the magic really happens.
Kevin King:
So are you creating SOPs from scratch? Or do you have like some templates and you come in with the owner and say, all right, break down, what are you doing every day, what are your steps? How do you? How do you? How are you contacting your suppliers? How are you doing the marketing? What are your rules, that you go by and have them like kind of think that through and write that down to SOPs? Or do you have a template and they just kind of modify it a little bit and tweak it to their customization?
Michal:
so we have a template, as I mentioned. That’s essentially the structure we had in our own business that basically they can see under the hood of an eight-figure business, and I show literally everything, every tool, every spreadsheet, everything and we kind of use that as a model. But when it comes to systemizing the business, we begin by building process maps, really to just understand the workflows in the business. From there we will create a proper task management, right? So that will then help us with the delegation and, where necessary, we create instructions. But I’m not a big fan of creating detailed SOPs for every single step, right, because a lot of the time these SOPs become outdated. No one really uses them, right, if you have dozens of different SOPs. So I highly recommend people to just use SOPs only for training purposes. When we onboard someone and we see they need a little bit of help in that area or this area, we create an SOP, and at this day and age you can do that easily, you know, with AI recording a quick Loom video, using the transcript to create the SOP. So you basically hit two birds with one stone, right? You do the thing while creating the SOP.
Kevin King:
Yeah, I know a lot of companies that create SOPs or operating manuals or operating procedures and they go into a binder and they go up on the shelf and they never leave the shelf, they just stay there.
Michal:
Yeah.
Kevin King:
They just stay there. So once you’ve figured out, okay, this is the jobs we need to hire, is there some sort of order that you typically get the lowest-lying fruit off the table first or the biggest pain point of the owner off? A lot of people always say, well, your first hire should be customer service. You shouldn’t be as the owner, you shouldn’t be doing customer service, or is it whatever? Does it depend? I mean, maybe it’s getting a marketing person, or it’s a supply chain person or whatever. How do you just make those decisions of what steps or what order to actually start implementing people into the system?
Michal:
So we focus on first removing the owner from the maintenance of the business and then removing them from the growth right? From the growth areas of the business. So the first step, removing from the maintenance, which, as you said, would be customer service, but in most cases it’s going to be supply right. In like 60, 70% of the cases, the first hire we make is a supply manager. Again, it depends on the business. I’ve worked with businesses for customer service.
Kevin King:
What is a supply manager? What’s your definition of what a supply manager typically does? Just give people that are listening an idea.
Michal:
So that would be inventory forecasting, right, understanding, uh, when you need to reorder if you use 3pl, how many units to send for from your 3pl warehouse to Amazon. It’s also calculating seasonality curves if your product is seasonal, you know, understanding the spikes in the seasonality, whether it it’s Q4 or summer products, so you can forecast accurately. And then from the forecasting, of course, managing a relationship with suppliers. That means placing purchase orders, working with freight forwarders, booking shipments, managing those shipments and overall, taking care of your whole supply chain. Right, that’s a lot of the times where people sink most of their time.
Kevin King:
Is that person also dealing with issues if the listing is suspended or anything, or is that a different job?
Michal:
That I would consider a different job, right? So we then consider hiring an Amazon operations manager, who would be someone who basically takes care of the Amazon side of the business. You know, split testing, monitoring competition, monitoring keyword ranking and really understanding the Amazon marketplace. So one of the things would be listing suspensions right, that person would solve that. But it’s not something that the supply chain manager would do, because when we hire a supply chain manager, they don’t necessarily need experience with Amazon, they need experience with managing supply chain.
Kevin King:
So supply chain manager is oftentimes maybe one of the first ones you recommend. What comes after that typically?
Michal:
Then it also really depends on the business, but the Amazon operations manager is often the second big role to hire, because that’s basically the next area where I see sellers spending a lot of time right. Then we have either PPC or the Amazon operations, which I like to keep these separately because I think Amazon PPC is like a whole different beast that should be tackled separately. So often we either we analyze whether the people could use, you know, some tools, some automation, or whether they are better off to work with an agency, or, in some cases where they have special, like very specific needs, I recommend to keep PPC in-house, and in that case, hiring some PPC specialist would be a way to go. So either Amazon operations manager or some PPC specialist.
Kevin King:
Once this is all worked out, what am I if I’m projected to hit eight figures? So let’s say, in the next one or two years, roughly how many people would I as the owner? What would I be going to from me is running it the show when I’m at about a million bucks to where I’m at 10 million bucks. Am I now a company of 10 people, 12 people, 8 people? Is there some? Just, I know it can vary a little bit depending on the business, but what’s a good rule of thumb that I might be at?
Michal:
So it really depends on the complexity of the business. So I work with some businesses that you know are at 10 people when they are doing 5 million, because they have multiple sales channels, multiple marketplaces, they create content, so they have a slightly different strategy. But if we are just talking about very straightforward business, where the main growth driver is product development, I believe that around 5, 6 million are still fine with 4, 5 people. But getting to 8 figures, I believe you then need to expand the team as well right, because then your supply manager needs help as well, because if you’re managing dozens of POs, dozens of shipments, they cannot handle themselves. They will need some assistant to help them. So then the team kind of grows I don’t want to say exponentially, but quite rapidly yes.
Kevin King:
What’s the hardest in the Amazon e-com space? What’s the hardest position to hire for? What’s the one where there’s just not that many qualified people or it’s hard to find someone that can do a really good job, and on the flip side of that, what’s the easiest to hire for?
Michal:
I would say the hardest one is product development. People often think that they can easily hire someone do product research, develop new products. The idea is very tempting but at the end of the day the entrepreneur is the one who knows the brand the best. Ideally, they know the customer avatar very well, so it’s harder to delegate, not impossible. I then like to think in specific tasks that involve the product development but not the actual development of the product. That seems to be the hardest one right now. What I’ve been seeing with our clients to actually hire someone who can really take the product development from end to end, making the products better and optimizing that. When it comes to the easiest one, of course that would be customer service, but then again that doesn’t move the needle that much right, that saves people maybe two hours a week, three hours a week depends on the brand, so it’s easy, but it doesn’t really move the needle. Overall, I would say what I’m seeing nowadays is that hiring became easier since a lot of aggregators failed. Suddenly there are people that were very well trained looking for a job. So in the past year we’ve been seeing great candidates that were trained by the aggregators. So they have really good experience, very well trained, they understand everything and they’re just looking for a job. So even finding Amazon operations supply chain, it seems to be a very straightforward process.
Kevin King:
So you help the people you work with actually find the talent. So are you doing that? Do you have like a little agency set up or do you go through other people that already do that? Or do you have your own process and websites that you go to? How do you handle that?
Michal:
So we have pre-built hiring funnels for each of these roles we mentioned, which means that the hiring funnel really consists of the job ad, you know, the questionnaire, the skill test, the interview question, so everything is already defined for the role. So, essentially, what people do is just take that, you know, make slight adjustments in the job posting and start hiring on the websites we recommend. Currently I recommend Upwork and OnlineJobs. That’s a good place to start and usually that’s enough to get a few dozen candidates that we then filter out through this funnel to get the best candidates in front of us for the interview. So I help them, I guide them through the process. So everything I do is basically done one-on-one with me. I guide them through the process to make it easier and answer all their questions and give them the templates they need.
Kevin King:
So how is AI going to affect all this? I mean, like you said a minute ago, you might be able to get to 5 million with four or five people, but with AI and AI agents, that’s the hot thing in 2025, where you can actually develop some of these AI agents to actually do what a customer service person does, or to do, maybe, what a procurement or shipping logistics assistant would do. You don’t need that assistant anymore. The AI agent is the assistant. As this technology develops and is developing at a rapid pace, it’s not quite there right this second. I mean, you can do certain things, but I believe it’s coming in the next six months to three years where it’s going to be fully autonomous on a lot of this and AI is going to be able to do a lot of it. And so that group of five people might turn out to be two or three, and two or three of them are no longer humans, but they’re agents that can do this 24/7, without complaining or without taking breaks and without, you know, running away to another higher paying job.
Michal:
Yeah, I think that for now, what it looks like is that, rather than replacing a specific person in the business, it just makes the people who are already there more capable, more powerful, more productive, right? So, as you said, the person may no longer need an assistant because he leverages AI, right? So, rather than I’m going to replace my supply manager with AI, I can imagine that my supply manager with AI can handle five times the volume of his work, right? So that’s how I’m thinking about you know, at least for now, utilizing the current version of AI. But, as you said, like God knows where this will end up.
Kevin King:
So is that a priority at Scaleport? Helping people systemize with AI? Are you just kind of dabbling in it right now, or it just depends on the client whether they want to go that route or not?
Michal:
In some areas. I strongly urge people to use AI, especially when it comes to hiring. Basically, it really streamlines the process, whether it’s clarifying the role of the person or even filtering out the candidates, recording the interviews, letting AI help us make decisions. So that’s where we use it heavily. Of course, product development that’s also for ideation, an amazing tool. But in areas where I see so far not great results in terms of implementation of AI is managing the supply chain. The inventory forecast I find, like good old spreadsheets so far to be the best.
Kevin King:
I think you’re right. I think right now, but I think it’s going to get to where you have agents that actually can do that far better than what any human can do. It’s not there now, I agree the spreadsheets and the human looking at it but I think it’s going to rapidly make a switch to where you can have eight, let’s say, eight different AI agents working for your company. One of them is a specialist in product development and it’s out there, going out there, scouring all the trending sites, all the what’s hot, what’s all the past patterns and future patterns and forecasting. And then there’s another one that’s an agent that’s specialized in sourcing. It’s tied into Alibaba and global sources and all the supply chain stuff. It can automatically take what the first agent does and actually submit for bids and find the right supplier, and then a human at the end signs off on it or overlooks it, and then that agent also works with an agent that does builds the listing, and then another that works with another agent that does the customer service, and so on.
Kevin King:
You have an intertwined group of eight to ten that are completely talking to each other. It’s almost like self-driving cars, um, but, and they don’t have to have the human involved and they can talk to each other and feed off of each other. That’s not that doesn’t exist right now, uh, but I think that that’s where we’re going and I think that’s going to be a big change and I think there’s going to be a potential for people like your company, like Scaleport, that could be on the cutting edge of that, where you can actually help people make that change by helping them develop those agents and stuff. I would think that that could be a major, a major, major opportunity that people would probably be willing to pay good money for and would help make this transition from one-person million-dollar company into one-person or two people, maybe three people $50 million company, because I truly believe that you’re going to have a one-person billion-dollar company in the next five to ten years. That’s doing a billion dollars and it’s just one person, but before that, you’re going to have one person 10 million, $20 million companies that are fully utilizing where AI is going.
Kevin King:
And I think that’s part of the issue now with a lot of e-commerce sellers. They don’t understand the full picture of AI. They understand how to use it to help them write a better job listing or how to help them analyze their PPC or how to help them write a better listing, or bounce some ideas off in a brainstorming session. Those are all great things, but that’s just the tip of the iceberg. That’s of where this is going, and this is an area where I study quite a bit, and I’m actually even at the point now for me personally, like I have to, I have to change what I’m doing, and not business wise, but my time wise. I’m like I need to spend. I was just telling everybody yesterday I said “I need to start taking like Sundays” or whatever day of the week it is, but just for in my case, say a Sunday, because I work seven days a week. So I take Sundays, and Sundays are dedicated to nothing but playing with AI. That doesn’t mean I’m trying to make it do something cool in my business or automate my business, but just playing with the latest and coolest stuff to see what I can. Then to go tell somebody like you need to do this and this and this, and I think that’s going to become more and more important when it comes to systemizations, and I think the power we’re about to have in what you do now to helping humans is about to explode, and I think you may be in the right place at the right time to where Scaleport. If you did this right, Scaleport could be a much bigger exit for you than what you had on your glassware company.
Michal:
Yeah, yeah, definitely. Like it’s exciting and scary future at the same time, and I’m definitely open to it and I helping people to embrace the current version of the AI. I think it’s important to stay ahead of the curve and it’s evolving very quickly. As you said, I think it’s important to proactively learn and I personally find it quite enjoyable to just test different tools and watch videos about the new AI tools that were just launched. And, as you said, I really think it will be essential just to stay ahead of the curve yeah.
Kevin King:
All you got to do is stay a couple hours ahead of everybody else and you’ll be fine. Because it’s changing that fast, just be a couple hours ahead of everybody else and you’ll be fine. So are most of your clients in Europe, are they in the US? Or it’s a good mix all over the world.
Michal:
I would say it’s a pretty good mix all over the world. Like around 40 to 50% of my clients are from the US, 35-40% from Europe. But now I’m exploring Australia, so now I have a few clients from Australia and it’s really a smaller community but it seems to be a very tight community, so it’s also working pretty well. But yeah, overall, I would say all around the world in general.
Kevin King:
What’s like the biggest success story you’ve had with one of the people that come through Scaleport like someone that was just a total mess and you just like straighten them out and they just like you’re really proud of where they went and how successful they’ve become. Maybe they, maybe they even exited for a big, big sum.
Michal:
Uh, we had quite a few stories like this where we unlock the potential of their brand by really allowing them to expand the brand, right? I had sellers that were stuck around seven figures for the longest time two, three years and just bringing those, putting those systems in place and hiring two, three people, made all the difference and allowed them to double the business within a year, right? So, for example, actually today I was just talking to one of the sellers who finished the program a year ago and he managed to scale from around two million to five million a year after we implemented all of this and basically all he did just implemented the system, hired two people and launch a bunch of products, because suddenly he had the time to do that. And I don’t think it’s, at the end of the day, it’s not a rocket science, right? It’s just common sense. People often come to me and it’s like I haven’t been growing for two years. Well, you haven’t launched a single product. Like all you do is you know, play, manage your shipments and you know, tweak a little PPC. That’s not going to move the needle. You just need to go back to making the big moves, and the only way to do it is to have time to do it.
Kevin King:
How does your system work when I come in? Is it like you work with someone for three months, or is it a monthly retainer until they don’t need you anymore? Or what’s the system? How does it work?
Michal:
So we work together for around three or four months where we go through these stages, as I mentioned. First we look at the mindset, then we build the systems, then we go through the hiring and we basically end up with defining a proper strategy for the business and the planning system. Right, because then when the seller have the time, I think it’s very common for entrepreneurs that they suddenly find more people to put on their plate right? We help them remove some to have more time and suddenly they put a bunch of stuff back in so we help them to have more direction in the business and so they don’t get spread too thin again. So this process usually takes three to four months.
Kevin King:
Is this just you, or do you have a team yourself at Scaleport?
Michal:
I have a team helping me with content because I have a YouTube channel where I talk about these topics systems, processes, team hiring, managing so I have a team helping me with that. But when it comes to work with clients, I do that not necessarily because it’s the most efficient, scalable way to do this, but because I enjoy it.
Kevin King:
And what does something like this typically cost?
Michal:
Yeah, so it depends on the size of the business, but I try to fit within 10,000 US dollars for the whole, for the whole cooperation.
Kevin King:
That’s not bad. Um, that’s not bad at all. Do you get some people that start it and like, ah, to heck with this, this is just not for. I don’t like this, this is not for me. They just get frustrated with the process and you have to kind of babysit them through it, or is everybody always gung-ho?
Michal:
I feel like it’s my job to keep them motivated. So it’s common that, you know, people start with a lot of excitement and then see like, hey, it’s actually work. But I managed to get them through it by, you know, just reminding them why they started, and then there’s basically no alternative. I would say that’s, that’s a that that’s a lot like also important when people want to grow but they kind of feel like I don’t want to do this, well, there is no other option than just to go through this painful period for a bit, so you can then grow again.
Kevin King:
You’re going to be coming to Iceland next month for Billion Dollar Seller Summit. Are you looking forward to that?
Michal:
Yeah, I’m super excited. I want to definitely excited to see Iceland, but, more importantly, to experience the conference. I’ve heard so many good things about it. I’ve spoken at quite a few conferences already, but this one, I think, will have the highest level sellers, so I’m really making sure that I’m going to bring the best stuff possible.
Kevin King:
What are you going to be speaking about?
Michal:
I’m going to speak about how to build a business that runs without the owner, how to basically successfully remove from the operations of the business, so that will systematically remove itself from the business, so they can have more freedom.
Kevin King:
Yeah, I think it’s going to be good, like you said. Yeah, the Billion Dollar Seller Summit the speaker, it’s a very, very elite group of speakers and it’s very competitive. The median seller at the last one last BDSS in Hawaii was seven and a half million. So half the people are doing over seven and a half million. Half the people under the average is like 25 million, but you know, one big aggregator or something can skew that average. So that’s why I give it a medium. It’s about 120 of some of the top most successful people around the world in the Amazon space. So I think you’re going to have a good time and it’s going to be good connections. And also, you know, it’s Iceland. We’ve got volcanoes and glaciers and cold and cool, cool events and it’s going to be a really cool time. I think you’re going to really, really enjoy it.
Michal:
Yeah, looking forward to it.
Kevin King:
Awesome. Well, this has been a great speaking today. If people want to learn more, maybe even work with you or something, or inquire about your services, they’re at that point where they’re needing to systemize and needing a little bit of help and guidance. How would they reach out or what’s the best way to do that?
Michal:
So they can find me on our website, Scaleport.io, or they can find me on YouTube searching for my name, or they can connect with me on LinkedIn, for example, like I’m happy to connect there as well if they want to just have a chat and ask some questions. But the best way would be definitely our website, Scaleport.io.
Kevin King:
Mikel, I really appreciate you coming on. I’m looking forward to seeing you in person in Iceland next month.
Michal:
Thank you so much for having me.
Kevin King:
Systemizing your business is one of the most important but also one of the most difficult things for a lot of entrepreneurs, because it comes at a point where you’ve got to let go of your little baby and it’s a little bit of extra work when you actually go through the process, but the end result is usually much greater and the reward is very, very well, both in your time and in your money. So if you want to know more, make sure you go check out Scaleport.io, check out Michal’s company, or, hopefully you’re coming to the Billion Dollar Seller Summit in Iceland. If you want information on that and you’re listening to this before April 4th, you can go to billiondollarsellersummit.com, billiondollarsellersummit.com, and if you can’t make it to this year’s event, there’ll be another one next year, in 2026. So you can always get information there about that as well, or the Iceland events. You can also get a live stream of the events or you can actually watch a replay too. So if you’re listening to this after the fact, or you’re not able to make it, go to BillionDollarSellerSummit.com and click on the BDSS Iceland event tab and check out the replay or streaming options, depending on when you’re listening to this episode. We’ll be back again next week with another awesome edition of the AM/PM podcast. And remember, you’ve got to get to the point where you’re working on your business, not working in your business. That’s the definition of a true business owner. See you again next week.
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