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E-Commerce – A Great Cross-Cultural Road Trip – 242

A lot of us are positioned right in the middle of a busy e-commerce universe. That’s why it’s sometimes difficult to remember that there are a lot of people who don’t know that individuals selling on Amazon is a “thing.”

Today on the AM/PM Podcast, Tim Jordan speaks with someone who a very short time ago was one of those people. Gabriel Caceros is a Guatemala-based pay per click advertising pro and Account Executive at BetterAMS. He began his e-commerce career as many have, with no idea of the entrepreneurial possibilities that exist on Amazon. After building (and selling) his own Amazon brand, he pivoted towards what had become a passion, Amazon advertising.

Listen in to hear how he went from selling “inauthentic” Nike shoes to becoming a go-to guy for high-level e-commerce advertising advice. Gabriel says that he, “never says no to an opportunity.”

Don’t pass up this opportunity to learn from Gabriel’s road to success on Amazon.

In episode 242 of the AM/PM Podcast, Tim and Gabriel discuss:

• 04:45 – “Can You Really Sell on Amazon?”
• 06:30 – A Seven Month Amazon Selling Program Got Him Started
• 09:30 – Teaching English and Flipping Inauthentic Shoes
• 11:30 – Dreaming Instead of Thinking of Failure
• 14:30 – The Biggest Stumbling Blocks for Non-North American Amazon Sellers
• 16:30 – “You Have to Learn the Culture”
• 18:30 – 9 out of 10 Failures, Then Big Success on Amazon
• 20:30 – Gabriel Wanted to Get to the Next Level  
• 23:45 – What’s Next?   
• 25:30 – “Never Say No to an Opportunity”
• 28:30 – Gabriel is a Fan of Phil Knight’s Book, Shoe Dog

Enjoy this episode? Be sure to check out our previous episodes for even more content to propel you to Amazon FBA Seller success! And don’t forget to “Like” our Facebook page and subscribe to the podcast on iTunes, Google Play or wherever you listen to our podcast.

Want to absolutely start crushing it on eCommerce and make more money? Follow these steps for helpful resources to get started:

1. Get the Ultimate Resource Guide from Tim Jordan for tools and services that he uses every day to dominate on Amazon!
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3. Trying to Find a New Product? Get the most powerful Amazon product research tool in Black Box, available only at Helium 10! Start researching with Black Box.
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5. The Ultimate Software Tool Suite for Amazon Sellers! Get more Helium 10 tools that can help you to optimize your listings and increase sales for a low price! Sign up today!
6. Protect Your Amazon Brand with a Trademark! Protecting your brand from hijackers is vital. SellerTradmarks.com provides a streamlined process for obtaining a trademark for your business and shielding your products from fraud!
7. Does Amazon Owe YOU Money? Find Out for FREE! If you have been selling for over a year on Amazon, you may be owed money for lost or damaged inventory and not even know it. Get a FREE refund report to see how much you’re owed!

Transcript

Tim Jordan: November of 2016, it was the month, and even the night that Donald Trump won the presidential election. I remember this because while he was winning the election, I was landing for my very first time in Guatemala City, Guatemala. And I would have never guessed that the next day I would be meeting in person the guest that we have on this episode. In this episode, we’re going to talk about that story. We’re going to talk about the journey that our guest has gone through, and we’re going to take some really, really cool pieces of wisdom and actionable advice from this episode. I’m sure you guys are going to like it. Stick around to the end and we’ll see you in just a second.

Tim Jordan: Hi. I’m Tim Jordan. In every corner of the world, entrepreneurship is growing. So, join me as I explore the stories of successes and failures. Listen in as I chat with the risk-takers, the adventurous and the entrepreneurial veterans, we all have a dream of living a life, fulfilling our passions, and we want a business that doesn’t make us punch a time clock, but instead runs around the clock in the AM and the PM. So get motivated, get inspired. You’re listening to the AM/PM Podcast.

Tim Jordan: Hey everybody, welcome to another episode of the AM/PM Podcast. I know I say this all the time, but today, I have a special guest. Today we’re going to talk about his story and his story is one that is actually deeply intertwined with mine. And right before we started recording, we were kind of just realizing the weirdness and the significance of this, like four years ago, who would have ever thought both of us would be on this podcast talking to each other, but here we are. So Gabriel, if you would introduce yourself briefly.

Gabriel Caceros: Yes. Hello Tim. Thank you so much for having me. Hello audience. My name is Gabriel. I’m based in Guatemala and I’m currently an account executive at BetterAMS.

Tim Jordan: So BetterAMS, if those of you that are selling on Amazon, haven’t heard of them. They are one of the go-to absolute favorite PPC specialists, alright. They call themselves an agency, but I say it’s a relief specialist because it’s a huge relief knowing that there are smarter people than me that work on PPC. And I remember following Destaney Wishon. She’s been a guest on several podcasts that most of you’ve probably listened to and followed her on social media. And there was an announcement at some point, I don’t know, nine months ago or a year ago, talking about bringing on a new account executive with this fine looking fellow Gabriel. And like, it hit me like a ton of bricks. I was like, Oh my gosh, I know this guy. Right. And what I want to do. And the reason I wanted to bring him on is because knowing his story and knowing like where all of this began to the point where he’s working with like one of the top PPC agencies in the world, I wanted to share that story and there’s a lot of valuable lessons that we can take away from this story. And there’s a lot of insight and a lot of motivation potentially, and just maybe a unique perspective for a lot of you listeners from the story. So what I’d like to do, Gabriel, is go through your story. And we can go ahead and kind of set a little bit of this story in the fact that we know Gabriel is located in Guatemala, so Central America, and he has been an Amazon seller. And after selling on Amazon, he found a specialty which led him to a position with BetterAMS. So that’s the really short version, but just kind of setting the basis for everybody. So going, Gabriel, tell us a little bit about how you grew up, where you grew up and what events transpired to you learning about this crazy opportunity, which was e-commerce selling on Amazon.

Gabriel Caceros: This will probably be very interesting because I didn’t grow up with an entrepreneurship mindset. I grew up thankfully with my both parents, mom and dad, they bought both hard workers. But I didn’t have that entrepreneurial mindset until I was probably 18 or 19 years old. I met a guy from my church that was a business owner. He has a locksmith store and he brought me into entrepreneurship. Then I got a part-time job at a school. I was teaching English and I met this girl who is now my girlfriend. And I really liked her and I really wanted her to be my girlfriend. And one day she goes in and tells me, Hey, I’m leaving this. I’m done teaching. And I was like, what? What happened? And she was like, yeah, I’m leaving. She’s a graphic designer, by the way. She told me, Hey, I’m going to start working with somebody that sells on Amazon. And I was like, sell on Amazon. Can you sell on Amazon? Really? I was like, yeah. She was like, yeah. And I was like, okay, I definitely need to try that because if I do it well, it can be life-changing, right. Because you’re not there. You’re not touching your products. You’re just making sure that you do the marketing well, that you do get that you position your products. So, I got into it and I lost like 3000, $4,000 when I got started. But by doing that, I had a chance to connect with Rodrigo because Rodrigo is the person that brought her into e-commerce.

Tim Jordan: So for those of you who listen to a lot of these episodes. It was episode 198. I brought in Rodrigo Blanco.  I brought in Rodrigo and we talked a little bit about the story and history of how I met him. And if you haven’t listened to the episode, you need to listen to it. And Rodrigo was a guy, the short version, that wanted to learn to sell on Amazon and he did, and then he wanted to teach other people to do it. So he was able to find some like fundraising opportunities, some investors, and created this Academy or this school of young entrepreneurial minds there in Guatemala City that would work together for like six months or eight months, something like that. Seven months. So to learn, to sell on Amazon. And I think in that episode of Rodrigo, I told all of you about me flying down to meet him. And he said, Hey, when you get here tomorrow, I want you to come talk to the group of people that are learning to sell on Amazon. I ended up at this office with all these young folks that were just getting started like their first week. And Gabriel was one of them. That’s how I met Gabriel. And so going back to your story now, Gabriel, you skipped a few steps there. I want to really get to, but your girlfriend, Lou introduced you to Rodrigo and you were accepted into this program where you would basically take seven months of your life and learn how to sell on e-commerce. Is that about the short version of it?

Gabriel Caceros: Yeah, so I feel I got accepted and Rodrigo told us that later we got accepted because we were the first guy that actually tried it. And then because a lot of people were reaching out to Rodrigo like, Hey, can you teach me, can you tell me. We got started Fernando and the other guys that got accepted started something and we’d probably screw it. We probably lost money, but we had a little proof that we were into it. Right. And that’s what Rodrigo saw, I feel.

Tim Jordan: So, you actually tried to sell on Amazon before you entered this program. I didn’t realize that. So you had tried it obviously didn’t do very well. And then you were accepted into this program that Rodrigo is hosting and you started over, is that right?

Gabriel Caceros: Yeah.

Tim Jordan: I want to understand that transition because, and I don’t mean this in any critical way. I don’t mean this to be inflammatory, but Guatemala and Central America is for a lot of people, a pretty tough place to live. Right. I used to refer to it as a third world country and now I don’t. I refer to it as a developing country, right. But we see on the news, all of the crazy stuff that’s going on and people are literally so poverty-stricken and desperate that they’re walking a thousand miles to try to get to the US border. Like it’s a tough place to live. So that being said, I would imagine if I were in your shoes that Lou had a job teaching in a school, right. And you’re working on English, like you’re on a track to what should be fairly stable income, which is hard to come by in a country like Guatemala. So what prompted you to leave this seemingly stable and normal professional track and say, I’m going to go hang out with these guys that I’ve never met and figure out how to do something that I didn’t even know you could do a few months ago. Like, was that a really big challenge for you to take that entrepreneurial leap and step outside of what should have been a comfortable bubble?

Gabriel Caceros: Yeah. So, going back a little bit, I got into teaching English because I was looking for part-time jobs that I could show my parents that I had some job security, but what I was actually doing was I was teaching during the morning. And then during the evening, I was flipping anything you could imagine from shoes to laptops, to I-phones. So that’s why I had money to test on Amazon, to dip my toes and lose $3,000. And I learned a little bit about the process. So I was hustling everything I could.

Tim Jordan: And I remember, can we talk about your shoes?

Gabriel Caceros: Oh yeah, we can.

Tim Jordan: All right. Sweet. So you were saying, you got this entrepreneurial bug and what I remember most about you is that like you’re walking around with a pocket full of cash and I’m like, where’s this guy, like, he didn’t make this much money teaching English and what you were doing, correct me if I’m wrong, but you were buying counterfeit Nike soccer cleats from like Alibaba or AliExpress or something, shipping them to Guatemala, getting them through customs. And then you had an army of like shoe dealers, like usually like younger students that were going into different neighborhoods and flipping these shoes. Right. So you had like this little mafia cohort, you’re like a drug dealer, but with shoes and you were selling counterfeit Nike soccer cleats. Was that right?

Gabriel Caceros: Yeah. Those were my humble beginnings. I actually got started with your jerseys. I don’t think a lot of people know about that. I got started with jerseys. Then one day I tried shoes and they had like 10x more demand. 

Tim Jordan: Yeah. So, you were making money by illegally hustling counterfeit shoes and jerseys. So you had a part-time job teaching English just to try to show your parents you weren’t a complete screw up. And then you walked away from that to follow some dude that you had just met about selling something online in the US. Does that sum up your story of getting started?

Gabriel Caceros: That sounds like me, yeah.

Tim Jordan: That’s amazing. All right. So, now let’s fast forward to like the day we met, which was like the first week of this whole thing. So you’re thrown into this office with a bunch of other students and you’re told, Hey, we have money basically to give you to buy inventory. We’re going to fund this entire Academy for the next seven months. Some gringo named Tim Jordan walks through the door your first week. Like, what was your first week like? What do you remember that first week getting started in this actual true training on how to sell on Amazon?

Gabriel Caceros: Well, it was about, it was all about dreaming, I feel like. Because we were seeing a lot of really huge numbers on Rodrigo’s account, like a thousand dollars a day. And we have never seen those numbers in our businesses we have had before as a group. So we started dreaming a lot and we were stoked, pumped. And like the next day after our first day, it was like, Hey, do you guys remember about Tim Jordan I told you guys about yesterday? He’s coming over today. And we were like, no way, this is really accelerating fast. And yeah, I feel like it was all about dreaming. We were not even thinking about failure. We were just, I feel like dreaming.

Tim Jordan: And this was like 2018, right.

Gabriel Caceros: 2016. We got started in November, 2016.

Tim Jordan: 2016. Wow. Dude, it’s been almost five years. That’s crazy. All right. So over the next six or seven months, you were basically embarking on this mission to learn how to sell on Amazon virtually. Right. And I think it’s interesting to like, just hear a little synopsis of how that went for you, because there are so many people that are even listening to this podcast that have an opportunity to start a business outside of the country that they’re in. And what’s interesting is this is a new thing. Like 20 years ago, you couldn’t sell to anybody in the world from anybody in the world or anywhere in the world. Like you were stuck with a geographical location, right. So this is very new. So, how would you sum up your experience over the six or seven months working with these other Voyagers? That was the nickname we came up with by the way, was the Voyagers. How would you describe that whole experience getting businesses started learning from each other and really growing individually.

Gabriel Caceros: I think it was really cool how Rodrigo set it up. So there were three different pillars on the project. One of them was making sure that you had a strip that you create your own stream of income in this case, by learning about how Amazon works. So, we would dive into making sure that we also build up a kind of a course for the people that were going to check these stuff online. And we were also helping with a lot of information. So we, uh, Helium 10 would release any webinar, for example, we would help on. And we would watch the whole webinar and we would watch all of Brian Johnson’s webinars. And we would watch who was famous back then, Mason Stellar, John Balker. We would watch all of his episodes as well, and then discuss it and then kind of try to dig into what was really going on and how we could be successful. And there are two pillars, which I’m not going to dive into, but I still today, my girlfriend and I, we have a minister from our church where we basically coach people from all over Latin America. Thanks to TikTok, other platforms that are out there. We have a group every Tuesday where we basically advise people on how to manage money, how to– what career to biggest stuff like that. And that’s kind of how it has evolved into not just e-commerce, but also helping people that are here near us or hearing what I’m on.

Tim Jordan: So what were one of the biggest challenges or what was the biggest challenge that you had trying to figure out how to sell to an environment that didn’t speak the same native language as you, that you might not have understood completely culturally, and that was geographically distant. What was the biggest challenge that you think that people in a country like Guatemala have trying to learn to sell in the US on Amazon?

Gabriel Caceros: I think culture, I think we have adopted a lot of things from you guys, but there are lots of things we don’t know about. And these things can be learned either by movies or books or, or just by following people that can give you a little bit of the American and not just what we see from the outside. Guys, if you have a better sense of what the culture is like, whether Hispanic culture is like in the US, what the black culture is like in the US, what the sports culture is like in the US. It’s a lot easier, I feel like choosing products to do your marketing and to really grow your brand towards that audience.

Tim Jordan: Yeah. I remember one of the things that we worked a lot with you guys was keyword identification based on what people are using and not what the grammar book says to use, like in Google translate. Right. I remember, whether it’s some of the printed products, some of you guys there’d be like a weird word, and I’d say, no, you can’t use that word. Even though it’s grammatically correct, it doesn’t make sense, or even the keyword research. So, how did you end up getting over that? Like, what’s the biggest piece of advice you would give to anybody that’s not in the US culture, the English culture, so to speak on how to sell or how to overcome those problems selling in this culture?

Gabriel Caceros: I think definitely the best thing is to get familiar with it. So, it can either be by a Netflix series, or it can be by books, or it can be by following certain news to understand how the culture is like, and from then on, thanks to Amazon, you have the chance to analyze all of the data that you’re collecting through some of your products, so that also helps. It also helps you guide you through where you should go to, whether you changed the size of your product, or make it smaller, or make it there, or make it maybe a little bit more shiny.

Tim Jordan: So the way this project worked with Rodrigo was he matched you with an investor. And that investor was basically helping you fund your time during the educational process, but also would fund your initial round of inventory, right. And then you’re going to be business partners with that investor. So how did your first product launches go? And you’ve got some money, you buy inventory. Talk to me about how that Amazon business went.

Gabriel Caceros: Oh, okay. So in my case, we had our first round of investment, which was 10k, and the second round of investment was 30k, which was 15 coming from me because of my money from shoes and 15 coming from my investor. Our first 10k investment went horrible. Tim, I was number six out of seven people that were launching their product. I got started really bad. Like I was like, okay, I’ll probably have to seek another job. But one thing my partner had, and I appreciate these was he had a truly– he had faith in me as well as in how the project would work if we’d make it work. So that’s why we had a second round of investment. And he was not thinking like me, like a guy that sells on, I don’t know, tennis shoes, and then keeps the money from the tennis shoes. He was thinking more like a business mindset. And I really learned my business perspective from these guys. So we kept investing or money for like the first, probably the first two years. And that’s how I actually got started. But at the beginning we had our failures, like nine out of the 10 products we launched were failures.

Tim Jordan: So, is that business still operating now?

Gabriel Caceros: So, the business was sold in March last year to a holding group in Mexico. And the business is still rolling.

Tim Jordan: And obviously you made some money or you probably couldn’t have sold the company. Right?

Gabriel Caceros: I did. Yeah, we did. My partner and I did.

Tim Jordan: So, as you’re working on this project, you’re figuring out what you’re good at. And I suspect that what you’re going to say is you figured out that you’re really good at PPC. Is that right?

Gabriel Caceros: Yeah, that’s right. So, the way I got started on PPC was I bought into Sean Smith, PPC AMS accelerator cruise back in 2018. And a door opened to me, a door of big agencies, a door of consultants that were doing good in the space that we’re doing great in the space. And I realized I could do that if I get out a client that was good enough to scale their sales and show up their numbers. So that’s what basically I started doing. I got a client, I got somebody to trust in me. And the next month I was posting results on 10 groups, and people started reaching out. And from then on, you just create a snowball effect.

Tim Jordan: So, this is really interesting to me because I see people all the time get into e-commerce and think that they’re going to get into e-commerce and they’re going to start selling on Amazon, and they’re going to start selling on Shopify, or they’re going to get into affiliate marketing. And what happens is that’s like the entrance into this world of e-commerce, right. And where they enter, which might be selling on Amazon, isn’t where they end up. I’ve used the example of Carl Jacoby, right? Like he was a seller and then figured out he’s actually really good at like, prepping fulfillment. So, now his entire business model is supporting other online sellers through his fulfillment center. Right. And that’s kind of what happened to you, right? Like you sold, right? Like you sold products, you ended up selling that company, but that wasn’t like your true gift. Like your true gift was not the whole package of selling online. Your gift was figuring out how to run an effective PPC. Is that an accurate statement?

Gabriel Caceros: I got started with a few clients, but I really wanted to go to the next level. And the last level was to seek for a team. And you mentioned earlier that BetterAMS announced that they were hiring people. I applied like two times and I got rejected, until I made it to the interview, but once I made it to the interview, once I had sold the company, so I think there was a conflict of interest there. I know I was able to get interviewed while I was away from the company that I built.

Tim Jordan: So what was that like telling your girlfriend, telling your family, Hey, I’ve stopped selling illegal shoes. And I went to a legitimate business, which now I’m getting rid of, and I’m going to start a completely different venture, like, were people surprised by now that you’re making another completely huge life changer? Do people now expect this from you?

Gabriel Caceros: A little bit, I think a little bit. I have explained that I could grow, I could grow myself as a consultant on my own, but it’s better to be number 13. Would you rather be number one on Socks international LTD or number 13 on Facebook? Right. So, I’m really comfortable with being number seven, eighth, and 10th on BetterAMS. Because I have whole Latin America for me, and to teach people about excelling on Amazon, about e-commerce, about PPC in general. And I couldn’t have done that on my own without leadership, without structure, without aligning my strengths and weaknesses and double down on my strengths to make sure that I’m following the right path.

Tim Jordan: So you went from selling illegal shoes, to selling online, and to freelancing a little bit, to now you’re working with this premier agency in the US, right? I think that’s an incredible story. What were some of the most surprising things that have happened to you over the last few years based on your journey through this whole crazy world of e-commerce`?

Gabriel Caceros: Oh, going to China with you was one of them.

Tim Jordan: Yeah. Oh, I forgot about that.

Gabriel Caceros: Yeah. That trip was paid off fully by the company we were managing. I didn’t put a single dime from my pocket. And that was quite an experience, it was mind blowing like 30,000 steps in one day. Crazy. I would say meeting the BetterAMS team as well, like a month and a half ago, our CEO flew us all over to fly out of Carmen, Mexico. And we shake hands for the first time after working a year to get her that way.

Tim Jordan: Did you remind them, say, Hey, remember all the times you didn’t even want to interview me when I applied for a job?

Gabriel Caceros: No, not like that.

Gabriel Caceros: Destaney, if you’re listening to this right now, I’m bringing it up. I can’t believe you ignored Gabriel’s resume all those times.

Gabriel Caceros: They didn’t know about me like that. Yeah. Those two times, I would say only e-commerce and the internet has made it possible.

Tim Jordan: So what’s next? You’re talking about, you’re working with BetterAMS now. You’re kind of leading the charge on the Latin American Spanish front there, of course. You’re also taking on some others, it sounds like kind of philanthropic projects, helping coach and coach other people there locally. You’re doing all sorts of other projects, but do you see yourself in a certain position or a certain place in the next three years? Or have you learned, Hey, everything might change so fast. I’m just along for the ride and I’m not going to try to plan it.

Gabriel Caceros: I’m definitely not considering anything illegal if you’re wondering. I think– I definitely see myself as somebody that will be teaching e-commerce, Amazon PPC in both Spanish and English. I see myself like that. I want to grow with my personal brand because good stuff comes from it. We have signed great brands just for the fact that I’m both a Spanish and English speaker and it has made some of her clients more comfortable knowing that there is somebody that they’ll be easy to talk to, easy to treat to, that I’ll be able to put myself in their shoes. Let’s say that I’m really grateful to have found a team that it’s pushing me to the next level.

Tim Jordan: You’re sitting on a stage right now talking to a lot of different entrepreneurs, really all over the world based on our listeners. What is one piece of advice that you would give to anybody that might have been in a similar situation to you, maybe living in a place that doesn’t afford as many opportunities as others, or being offered an opportunity that seems completely random and outside of the norm. What would you say to anybody that might be sitting in your shoes five years ago?

Gabriel Caceros: I would say don’t say no. And have a lot of curiosity. So I first heard these from a guy that was a huge businessman here in Guatemala. Don’t ever say no to opportunities. If you have the chance to try something new, because someone invited you to try it, go for it. If you have to, if somebody is inviting you to a class or a certain topic, that might sound weird, but it still could make you money or it still could make you learn from it so that you can apply those skills in not another task, another job. Don’t say no, there will be a time like I can say no now to manage a small brand, something like that. But in the very first few years, you probably want to say yes to everything.

Tim Jordan: What about being told no? From other people and from yourself, because the first $3,000 you invested in Amazon sucked, then the next $10,000 you invested in Amazon sucked and you just kept going. And then, you were told no twice from your current position and you just kept applying. So what would you say to somebody who keeps getting bad news or keeps getting told no, as far as just keeping fighting,

Gabriel Caceros: That’s a tough one. Definitely perseverance and resilience is important. And if anybody wants to succeed in life, but at the same time, you have to know when to allow yourself to not take opportunities or to tell yourself, Hey, I am probably being called to do something else. I had a true belief that I could get things done, but I felt like I was in a process where I was probably for BetterAMS. I was probably not experienced enough and I was not managing large accounts. And I came to a point where I was managing larger accounts and I had built that experience. And then I could apply to BetterAMS to get accepted. But I had managed larger accounts in the past. I had that history and I had the plus of being successful, we would say Amazon seller. Same with Amazon. I saw Rodrigo’s numbers. I knew that that was a good business model. We had to learn all the fundamentals. We had– Mark Cuban has this quote. He says, you only have to be right once. And he’s right. Once you’re right once you start building up that confidence and you kind of try again, try again until you start succeeding a little bit more. And I owned that quote for myself when I went.

Tim Jordan: Amazing. So for a guy that wasn’t entrepreneurial you claim, right to have done all this entrepreneurial stuff. My suspicion is you had to do a lot of training and a lot of self-help and figure a lot of this stuff out on your own. So lately I’ve been asking all the guests, if you had to think back to like one business book that you read, that helped educate you or prepare you more for this entrepreneurial journey that you could recommend to our audience, what is that one book that you think they absolutely have to read and why?

Gabriel Caceros: Oh my God. My first mentor recommended Rich dad, Poor dad. Actually, that was a graduation gift. This guy knows nothing about e-commerce. He has done just good business in general or his life. And he recommended that book, but the book I liked the most is probably Shoot up from Phil Knight, because it’s a great entrepreneurship story from start to finish. And he struggled a lot and it’s pretty similar to what we do in –commerce, which is buying and selling physical products. He was buying and selling– buying and selling [inaudible] shoes. And then he created his own brand. Like he got, he it’s like a private label, massive success story, so it’s a really good book. And if you allow me to add a third one, it’s a small booklet, Mark Cuban has this book called How to Win at the Sport of Business. And this guy, basically stands that business is a sport, but instead of going for 90 minutes, long or 30 minutes long, or two hours long or three hours long, this is at 24 times seven, times forever sport. And there’s always somebody trying to beat your ass. So you better be prepared. You better be constantly working to yourself so that you don’t get left behind.

Tim Jordan: Well, I think it’s massively ironic that in the second book you mentioned Phil Knight, the founder of Nike, you’re recommending his book now, but you were selling fake Nike shoes five years ago. Amazing.

Gabriel Caceros: At some point, I tried to sell the legit shoes, but the market was really small. So I dropped the ball on that.

Tim Jordan: Yeah. Keep selling the fakes. I get it. All right. Well, Gabriel, it’s an honor to have you here. I appreciate you coming on. And I appreciate the fact that both of our lives have changed so much. Right. Who would have thought in 2016 that just by saying yes to some opportunities, things turned out the way they did. That trip that I took down there where I first met you was one of those crazy. I’m not going to say no, I’m going to get on a plane. I’m going to go to the country. I’ve never been to meet some complete strangers. Rodrigo, I’d met on Facebook randomly like three weeks before. And I’m like, sure, I’ll jump on a plane. And saying, yes has gotten me in some trouble. Saying yes has put me in some situations I had to dig myself out of, but saying yes has also given me a lot of opportunities. I know I wouldn’t have gotten otherwise. And I know you’re the same. So, thank you for sharing that story with us and man, thanks for being here and thanks for being my friend. And I appreciate everything that you’ve shared today. And I’m sure the listeners– if the listeners haven’t gotten some sort of piece of wisdom, advice or motivation out of this episode, then you need to hit rewind, start again and listen to it again. Because you’ve missed something good. I promise. So any other final words before we sign off?

Gabriel Caceros: Nothing more than thank you so much, Tim, for having me. There is a lot more to dig into about these stories, but I think we just made a great episode.

Tim Jordan: All right. We hope so. Well if you guys think we made a great episode, make sure to leave us a review on whatever podcast platform you’re listening to. If you’re watching this on YouTube, make sure to hit the thumbs up button, subscribe to the channel. Also go over to the AM/PM Facebook page and like, and follow it so you get notified for new episodes. And we’ll see you guys on the next one.