#430 – Packaging That Sells: How to Triple Your Product Price with Strategic Design
Transform your brand’s presence with the power of packaging! Join Kitty Lai, a seasoned expert in design and branding, as she shares her journey from a young worker in a packaging factory to designing for iconic brands like Ted Baker and Cath Kidston. Discover how effective packaging can elevate your product, enhance brand recognition, and even lead to viral success. Kitty unpacks the secrets behind choosing the right packaging materials and designs that captivate customers and communicate value.
Imagine turning a simple kitchen knife, initially priced at $30, into a premium product that sells for $129 just by changing its packaging. Kevin King and Kitty Lai explains how strategic design changes can justify higher prices and improve product perception. Dive into the world of e-commerce and learn how market research can uncover customer willingness to pay more for perceived value. Kitty emphasizes sustainability, nudging brands towards recyclable and reusable options that resonate with today’s environmentally-conscious consumers.
For those looking to expand from e-commerce to retail, Kitty offers invaluable insights into selecting and sourcing packaging that aligns with your brand’s identity and customer expectations. She discusses the art of the unboxing experience, where simplicity and thoughtful design can transform customer satisfaction into loyalty. Whether you’re an Amazon seller on a budget or a growing brand, Kitty’s guidance on maintaining design consistency and leveraging creative packaging will inspire you to surprise and delight your customers.
In episode 430 of the AM/PM Podcast, Kevin and Kitty discuss:
- 00:00 – The Importance of Packaging for Branding
- 03:23 – Career Path in Design Industry
- 06:02 – Evolution of Design Trends
- 11:31 – The Impact of Packaging Design
- 14:11 – Importance of Branding and Packaging
- 22:19 – Packaging Strategies for Amazon Businesses
- 27:08 – The Value of Presentation in Marketing
- 29:48 – Enhancing Customer Experience Through Packaging
- 31:19 – Packaging Design and User Experience Importance
- 34:01 – The Power of Packaging Extras
- 37:39 – Creative Packaging Solutions for Clients
- 39:57 – Packaging Design and Brand Consistency
- 45:29 – Importance of Brand Consistency
- 47:07 – Impacts of Creative Packaging Design
- 49:39 – Exploring Creativity in Brand Marketing
- 50:57 – Maximizing Packaging Impact
- 51:45 – Kevin King’s Words of Wisdom
Transcript
Kevin King:
What’s up everybody. This is episode 430 of the AM/PM podcast. This week we’re talking about branding and packaging. That’s right. How do you actually get people to pay more money and how do you get creative with your packaging? I’ve got Kitty Lai this week and we talk about everything to do with packaging and a lot of things that you probably aren’t thinking about that you could be doing to really make your product stand apart and to really help it to even potentially go viral just based on the packaging and even maybe even charge double or triple the price. Enjoy this episode with Kitty. Hello everybody, Happy New Year to everybody. Welcome to the next episode of the AM/PM podcast. Today I have the lovely Kitty Lai. How are you doing, Kitty?
Kitty:
Hi, I’m really well, Kevin, and thank you so much for having me on the show.
Kevin King:
You’re welcome. I had to do something to save you from that cold British winter right?
Kitty:
Yeah, it is really cold, but it’s not as cold. It’s not snowing, so I’m still expecting snow, but we’ve had storms last weekend, so it has been wet, windy and typical English weather.
Kevin King:
Typical English weather. I mean I love London, I mean London’s a cool, you’re in London proper or you’re in the outskirts of London.
Kitty:
I was in London for 25 years and I’ve moved back to my hometown on the coast, on the South Coast—
Kevin King:
Oh, on the South Coast, okay Down, like by Essex or that area?
Kitty:
No, down Brighton, Worthing West, Sussex way. So I live in a little town called Chichester.
Kevin King:
Okay.
Kitty:
It’s lovely. It’s nice. My family here, my mom, dad, it’s where I went to school and stuff. But I’m back home now after 25 years so.
Kevin King:
Awesome, awesome. Yeah, I always love visiting over there. I’ve been to London, that area and throughout the whole area many, many times. It’s great. Cool, I think. Where did we meet? I think was it on the cruise, Seller cruise or something like that?
Kitty:
So we can rewind back.
Kevin King:
Oh it was actually before that too. Somewhere it was in London right?
Kitty:
It was in London at the Amazon head office. You did a talk and you actually did Mastermind there, so I attended it and this was 2017, I believe 2018, I believe.
Kevin King:
I remember doing that event. It was like one day was just a general event and then we did like two or three days after that where people paid extra.
Kitty:
That’s right. Yeah, I mean things have changed since then anyway. So I was an Amazon seller back then, so I was selling products in the US and UK. Didn’t do particularly well. I’m a designer and that’s what I do. I can’t deal with back end and stuff, but I went there to learn a lot of tips and I did and it’s amazing and I still love the journey and hearing stories from members and sellers as well. But my background is in design and branding and that’s where I really want to stay.
Kevin King:
That’s awesome. Is that what you went to school for? Or is that just something that you fell into and have to find that you’re good at?
Kitty:
If we’re going back, then 15. As soon as I got my national insurance card in the UK, we get this card so we can actually work at 15. And I worked at this packaging factory. So you’ve got the conveyor belts and I was packing makeup for Estee Lauder, Clinique and doing perfumes for Aramis. So I’m the one putting the brushes in the makeups and screwing lids onto the creams and stuff. So it’s a lovely brand and work there in summers, you know, holiday, holidays and stuff. So it was literally a summer job and part-time job. And that’s where I really fell in love with packaging. So I could see like the journey and the process from the handling product and then it going onto the shop floor and that was amazing. And then I studied art and design and went to university to study visual communication, where I um specialize in graphic design. So I’ve done that ever since and you know, my first job was working in London down Nil street, this really small little quirky graphic agency, but they made me wear suits to work. So it was bizarre. It’s like well, we’re creatives, why do I have to wear a suit? And you know, if you’re cutting things up. Back then we had to cut things up and make mock-ups and I’m like I’m wearing this clunky little suit in the in the night in the late 1990s. So it’s like, oh you know, but um, yeah, I loved it.
Kevin King:
And you did end up working for some big brands too, doing branding stuff right? So—
Kitty:
I did. Yeah.
Kevin King:
You work for a brand, or do you work for an agency that did stuff for the brand?
Kitty:
I worked in-house as an in-house designer so I literally worked my way up. Um, so my job, my second job, actually was working for a company called Ted Baker and they were still quite small back then, I was still established for 10 years, but obviously they grew big. Obviously in America there’s it was you know I was part of that to open stores around America, in Asia and Australia and Europe and obviously the expansion in the UK as well. So I worked as a graphic designer working on all the marketing materials the point of sale in store, the packaging, the, the marketing flyers, going on photo shoots, doing the brochures and everything that needed to go in store and to the customer was designing lovely Christmas bags and things. Yeah, I was there for 10 years. So I worked my way up to head of graphics. So I was managing a team of eight designers by the time I left Ted Baker and you know that was in 2008 when I left but you know there was a lot of transition from when I studied in university. I still learned to design on overlays, you know.
Kevin King:
I remember the little plastic .
Kitty:
Composites and stuff.
Kevin King:
I went back to the 80s and 90s too, when you had to actually output to film like a little piece of plastic film.
Kitty:
Oh, yeah, yeah, absolutely.
Kevin King:
Four different colors and four different pieces of film and everything.
Kitty:
That’s it. And the day when you had floppy disks, like 1.2 megabytes on a floppy disk working and it was just crazy. And then I’ve seen a progression from internet design, because when I studied at uni, internet had literally just started. I mean, America, you’re way ahead of us anyway. But for us in the late 1990s everyone was starting to get website designs and you know, you know, and everyone was getting a lot of things done and I that wasn’t really my space, I was more packaging and you know, that’s that arena. I love flat graphics, I love print graphics. Being digital was not really my thing and it was sort of the growth of that and just seeing a transition throughout the stages of having to learn and keep up over the years. I mean I’ve been doing this for over 20 years, um plus um and it’s just keeping up with the, the trends and all the things that are coming, especially when you see in the Amazon world everything, I think from 10 years. I mean you’ve been doing it much longer as well, seeing the transition from you know the whole grandfather back in the day when you started on Amazon. What’s changed. I mean how, how, you know, how has it grown and exploded?
Kevin King:
it’s completely changed, and packaging is something that I think a lot of people in this space totally ignore. I mean, they’re always looking for the cheap. They’re always looking for how can I get this down? And packaging in a cup was a lot of things. Packaging can encompass how well the product’s protected, how well the product, what size, how many you can fit in the container, what it looks like on a shelf. A lot of people, when it comes to e-commerce, are like what do I care about the packaging? Nobody’s picking it up off the shelf and turning it over and flipping it. But I would say the complete opposite. The packaging actually absolutely matters in many. There’s a few cases where it’s maybe a commodity product or something basic. You don’t, you don’t need that. You know you gotta. But for a lot of things, people eat with their eyes first and a good packaging confirms what you just bought.
Kevin King:
So if I just spent 50 bucks for something on Amazon and it comes in one of these cheap cardboard boxes, that’s kind of stinks. You can tell it’s just a little flimsy that came out. It’s not even like you know it’s. It’s not even like three wall, two wall, one wall, it’s like half a wall or whatever you know. Um, versus something that comes in a nice container that has a nice presentation. Um, you know, you think of Apple or something with a packaging. It’s simplistic but it’s elegant and it makes you feel like I just spent $1,000 for a phone. Okay, this is justified because this package feels like it’s $1,000. And I think that’s a thing a lot of people make a mistake on when it comes to e-commerce. Plus, packaging can be used now in your images to actually help you delineate something. So why do you think so many people I mean you sold on Amazon and now you’ve transitioned to doing more of the packaging and design stuff but why do you think so many people skimp on this? Is it because they don’t want to spend the money? Is it because they don’t understand it? Is it because why I don’t ever get the psychology of it?
Kitty:
Well, I think, firstly, a lot of Amazon sellers aren’t designers or they’re not natural business owners or brand owners and you think, oh, actually can I save? And I think when people do start off, it is like where can I save on cost? And it generally does come down to the design and the packaging. Now they think, okay, I’ve got the logo, I’ve got some of the brand ready, but the packaging, oh, I’ll just use what the suppliers have used and just use, you know, use their templates and not think of anything more creative other than that and the materials. But I think, yeah, it’s down to budget. But I think more Amazon sellers are getting a bit more savvy now and they’re looking at their competition and I think that’s really important to see.
Kitty:
It’s the experience as well that the brand owners forget. When you do get something through the post, you open that box and you think, oh, like you say, it’s flimsy, it’s smelly and it’s single-walled kind of packaging. You have to remember, as a brand owner, what is your customer getting. So it’s that experience and that is part of building a brand is experience, the joy and the customer service that comes with it and actually enjoying using the product itself. You know I love packaging and I always shop with my eyes, basically, and I do go into, I shop on Amazon a lot, so I do look at other brands and, oh you know, and I do look at price as well. So it’s like is that worth it and you know. But at the end of the day, when it comes through, um, you know the post and I do look at the packaging, thinking, oh, I do get quite a bit of joy from this. They’ve really thought about the materials they’ve used, the print they use and the layout looks great, and I think that’s a lot of things. People do miss the trick and that’s why some sellers are selling better than others as well, because they’re not thinking about the end result, what the customer is getting.
Kevin King:
I always think about good examples of packaging is when I go to the grocery store and I go into one of these specialty stores, they got, you know, a whole wall of olive oils. Or you go into a liquor store here in the States and you got a whole wall of tequilas and vodkas and you’re looking at them and it’s packaging is what makes. I mean, there are brand names where people know I want Tito’s or something vodka or I want a certain type of olive oil. But a lot of times the packaging you’re looking at it. It’s the packaging that actually catches your eye or that makes something feel like this olive oil should be $29.99 a bottle versus this other one’s $9.99. It’s probably the same damn thing inside or pretty close to it, but because this bottle is in the shape of a sexy girl or an olive or whatever, a tree or something you’re like that’s pretty cool. That would look cool on my kitchen counter, it’s a conversation piece or whatever, I’ll pay the extra money for it. And I think that’s where a lot of e-commerce sellers think that well, I can do the package. I can do a simple one uh, one wall box for 25 cents from my supplier.
Kevin King:
But if I want to do a custom packaging and make it look like a kind of like an Apple phone or iPad or something. It’s going to cost me $3. Shoot, that’s a lot of money to be spending. But the justification and the increase in price is where a lot of people, I think, miss the boat. And my buddy Norm one of his clients sells knives, and they were selling this knife, this kitchen knife, for like I forget the exact price, but let’s call it $30. And it was in a pretty basic packaging. He went to him and said, hey, let’s up this packaging and put it in this Japanese-style Ginzu box and put Japanese letters on there and do all this kind of cool stuff. And when they open it there’s a piece of foil you got to peel back and all this kind of stuff and the packaging costs like $3 or $4 to do that, which is dramatically more than what they were paying. But they went from $30 to $129.
Kitty:
Amazing.
Kevin King:
Exact same product and they gave the product a new name and I think they did something to the knife, spent another dollar and, like, did some texture or something on the knife to say it’s I forget what it’s called, it’s not rusted, but uh, some sort of you know, it’s, I don’t know, teased or tethered or something. They, they justified a much higher price, and that’s where I think a lot of people are missing the boat when it comes to the psychology of packaging.
Kitty:
I said, that’s perception, isn’t it? So it’s creating that perception and working on customers emotions, because you think, oh, that looks so different and it might be two dollars more, but it’s like I’ll spend that. I’m getting less, probably in the bottle, but I will just buy that because I want it and I’ve done that myself. You know, I think I’m just getting a bottle of Prosecco but oh, this is really nicely edged like bottle, you know, and I keep on my shelf. I won’t throw it away and any other bottle of Prosecco it’s in the bin. But there’s certain things I will keep hold of and spend a little bit more because I think, oh, it makes me feel good, I really like it and you know it’s worth keeping. But that’s the thing. It is working on the psychology of the customer and if you’re spending that little bit more just to make your product unique, it’s worth every penny because you know, and then you can, like you say, you can up the price of the product that you’re selling as well, and it more premium, luxury, and your customer wouldn’t probably know it’s the same product that you were selling before, maybe just a tweak from your competitors. It makes a huge difference to packaging, definitely.
Kevin King:
Well, I think a lot of e-commerce sellers might argue back to us and say well, that’s all great, Kevin, but my customers aren’t willing to pay more money. If I spend more money on the package, then you’re saying I can charge more. That’s cool. I wish I could do that, but my competition won’t allow me to do that. What would your answer be to those people?
Kitty:
Well, I would say, I mean, are they their own customer? I mean, are they selling to themselves? They might not. But I would say, do some market research as well and see whether customers actually pay extra. And they might be surprised. They probably would, and I guess it’s also down to the materials you’re using as well in the packaging. So you could probably source something fairly cheaper with your suppliers but still make it look premium as well. So if you’re trying to sort of save a buck here or there, you could probably do that, but I would say, definitely have the customer in mind, the target audience and who you’re selling to, because know there is, there is a market for it, um, and if you’re just thinking about, um, the bottom line, you know, then you know that you’ve got to think about the investment in your brand and are you growing it and how? How can you know? How can you grow your customer base and the brand you know with better packaging, because I think all these good brands that we see out there, the successful ones, they’ve actually invested a lot of money into where you know, to building their brand and making it appealable to their audience, and I think you know that emotion that you create just by opening a box, just having that extra, that layer to peel off I think it’s it makes the world of difference and I think that’s where Amazon sellers, you know, do sort of think differently. Um, not all. I think it’s being educated that actually, packaging is very important. It’s the first thing they receive; that’s the first thing they get in their hands.
Kitty:
Um, you know, you want loyal customers, you want repeat customers and you want them to be shouting out to their friends no, I just got, this does that. And you know. And your friend might say well, what’s so different about this and that? And you might, there might be a particular feature that I don’t know. That’s how brands grow, that’s mouth goes and that’s you know, and that’s what you want with your packaging, with your branding and, like you’ve said, with Apple. I keep all my boxes. I keep every single packaging box because I love it and it’s just too good to throw. I use it, I upcycle and use it for other things. I put pens and post-its and pins and things in it, but you know it’s too good to throw. So, and in this world as well, where we’re talking about sustainability, being eco-friendly and reusable things as well, I think a lot of brand owners are starting to think about their packaging, think about how can I reuse it or how can I recycle it. What can I use the box for now? And I’ve had a client recently as well. I designed a box for him and they said they want it as a keepsake box. But you know, their, their product is quite a day-to-day kitchen kind of product. Um, but they I designed the box so they could keep it. So there’s not, there’s not too much fluff or anything on there. It’s on a sleeve that goes onto the box. But the box is beautifully designed and it’s made to be kept because it’s too good to throw, and so you know it’s thinking about–
Kevin King:
That extends the brand. I mean, like you said, it’s a kitchen item that normally they throw the box out, but now they’re going to keep it and it probably has their logo or has some sort of branding or something on it.
Kitty:
It’s a foiled block, metallic, beautiful logo.
Kevin King:
And they’re going to put pens in it or do whatever they’re going to do, and it’s going to be a constant reminder of the brand. and that’s what a lot. There’s a lot of people that do that. I mean, my mom keeps freaking every I. I’m not even talking about nice packaging. If it’s one of those plastic containers that butter comes in, you know she keeps the damn thing because there may be some art project or something down the road. If it’s a tin foil that a pie comes in, she keeps it. But there’s a lot of people that keep good packaging to reuse it or to store things in. But that just extends the brand. What about also in packaging? A lot of people think well, packaging, that just extends the brand. What about also in packaging? A lot of people think, well, packaging, that’s just the box, but it goes beyond that. It’s a sensory thing. So with packaging you can actually do scents. If you’re selling I don’t know lingerie or something, when someone opens up the box of lingerie, you can have a nice package, a nice box with a bow and all the little papers and all that stuff.
Kevin King:
But if they open it and there’s a certain smell, you know the smell of love or lavender or whatever, whatever the smell may be, or there’s touch. You know, when one of the things that I did with packaging one of my products is I used to sell bully sticks I’ve told this story a few times and I actually use touch in the packaging. I mean I did a cigar box and the whole nine yards a custom box, but on the label itself I found, rather than just printing a basic label that sealed the box, it had texture to it. So, like you know, almost like Braille kind of feeling little bumps, because all those little things matter and if you really get into packaging and get into that design, there’s a lot of cool stuff you can really do.
Kitty:
Yeah, definitely, sensory packaging is a thing. It’s the first thing you see, it’s the smell, it’s the touch as well. And you know, with the smell thing you can get print. You can print smells onto packaging now. So I met this company that actually injects the scent of whatever you want into the print. So it will be like a laminate or the print color and it will just go onto the packaging itself so you could have something that smells lovely. But, yeah, absolutely, I think definitely using the eyes. The eyes are the main. You know the five. We have more than five senses. We’ve got the general senses but you’ve got the other ones, the emotional sense and all the other things that you know the sound, like the fizz, like you open a Schrepps bottle and it goes, it’s got a particular. I mean you have Schrepps in US, don’t you? Yeah, there’s, it was a trademark with the, the way it does that and that’s like oh, that’s. But you know that that’s another sense. You know you think in terms of the packaging, because they designed it to make that that pop sound, and there’s certain things you know that goes beyond just the box. So it is the sensory side of things as well. The thing that you open, like I don’t know, there’s certain particular packagings that have the I guess the Apple box you go, it has a particular as well and you know, I think they have a team that actually tests whether it has that pucker sound or you know, you know, and you know there’s lots of things you can do, and that’s going beyond just having a packaging in a box as well.
Kitty:
So, yeah, I mean, I, I love tactile things. I’m in stores and I’m constantly touching things and it’s like, oh, I like the feel of that material. But you know, the soft touch there are, you know, there’s particular materials you can use and I, I, you know, I, I have a lot of paper samples and I love soft touch, a kind of like rubbery touches. There’s actually materials made of cotton, so it has a kind of cotton feel as well, but it’s actually print and you can print on it. So I’ve used that on a swing ticket, um, recently as well, and it just makes the world of difference. Um, and you know it’s a lot of things that you can do and it doesn’t have to cost the earth either. So it’s like really thinking what can I make, um, how can I make my packaging different and what are my customers going to get from that? Because I think customers are, you know they really do like the experience that they get from Amazon. You know, buying something, buying products from the store or from Amazon, and it’s not sort of you know, it’s not. I guess you have to think about what the customer is getting at the end of it, and I think a lot of Amazon sellers don’t really get it and I think you know they’re missing a trick and they really need to start thinking more about the packaging, not just the layout as well, because that really matters as well, because there’s some really bad design out there. But you know, the packaging, I mean you know you’re right, it has to be special, it has to be unique, it has to appeal and it has to give that off, that emotional resonance to the customer.
Kevin King:
Yeah, I mean it’s similar to you know, women and wearing or people wearing clothes or women, especially because women like to dress up more than men. But the way you have the basic, basic structure of the woman but depending on whether she’s wearing heels and a nice dress with a slit or she’s wearing a workout thing to go yoga, she’s going to have a different look and a different thing. And it’s the same thing with packaging and you want to appeal. Whatever your customer avatar is. You want to appeal to those senses and because, like I said earlier, we eat with our eyes first and we judge things based on how they look, even though that might not be what they really are. I mean, that old saying you judge a book by its cover is unfortunately human nature, and it’s the same thing when it comes to product and packaging. So should you have the same package for your e-commerce as you do if you’re going retail, or should you just make a really cool package, use it on e-commerce and that’s going to help you get into retail, because you’ve already got a really cool package and maybe some buyer or someone’s going to say like, oh, this would be great in the store. Should you have two different packagings, or should they be? I’m not just talking about changing a little bit of the words or the UPC. I’m talking about totally different.
Kitty:
I don’t think you should. No, I don’t think you should. I mean depending on the product, because some packaging is especially made for posting straight out into the post. So that’s kind of like a completely different type of package, the craft kind of double-walled kind of packaging. But if it’s for a particular product, I think you actually want to sell into retail space or wholesale space. But I think definitely keeping the same packaging for retail is actually good, because you’ve already got a customer base and they’ll know that if you’ve got a loyal customer following, they’ll see it in the stores and that’s quite exciting. And I do see a lot of small businesses selling online and on Amazon and then they go into wholesale, they go into the big stores and department stores. They don’t change the packaging at all, unless there’s a requirement to change particular packagings for particular department stores, that there is no need to change it anyway. And I guess if they’re buying big volumes even better you can maybe tweak some of the the actual materials as well, because if you’re using cheaper materials for just online on Amazon, I think it needs to look more premium, depending where the department store is as well. But I think generally you don’t need to tweak too much really.
Kevin King:
So a lot of people, especially in e-commerce and you’ll know this since you were selling for a while. They’ll find a factory on Alibaba or Global Sources or somewhere that can actually make their product and they’ll ask them you know, what can you do for packaging? And the factory will say, oh, we have these three choices. We’ll design it for you, which is a lot of cases. That’s where you get garbage a lot of times, but that’s a mistake, though. I mean, when I was doing a lot of stuff in China and I still do some, but when I was doing a lot of the makeup stuff, I had three different factories doing my stuff. I had one factory actually making the products, another factory making my little bonus brush that went into it, and a third factory that I found independent of the factory of the original factory that was doing my packaging, and then they would send everything to one place and they would put it all together. So how important is that to actually, when you’re trying to do good packaging, to not just go with your supplier that’s actually making the real product and actually either ask them or find on your own somebody else that can actually do exactly what you want.
Kitty:
Yeah. So a lot of product suppliers already have a good relationship with print printers anyway and print suppliers who will do the packaging. But if you want to source your own, I think it’s also good as well, because I think you’re in more control in terms of what you can do. Maybe they have better pricing as well. I would always say shop around, always get free quotes in terms of if you’re going to get packaging made anyway. I think you should do that with your product anyway. Look at different suppliers and look at samples of what they produce as well. Going with a supplier that already has an in-house design team, depending on what your product is, they can do something quite simple, sometimes quite nice. But if you want to be in more control of the artwork and everything else, keep it in-house, keep your own designer that can design it, and you can get much more creative and more in control of that. Because I think sometimes the suppliers will I’ll do this and do that and they won’t budge sometimes. But I think also, as you say, having a product here and something, an application there and then a finishing house with the packaging supplier elsewhere. I think that’s also good because obviously, coming from the retail fashion world with Ted Baker, we kept everything separate, the label separate, the buttons separate, and they couldn’t count. They couldn’t counterfeit it, so we kept things quite safe as well. So, depending on what your product is as well, if it’s quite a high value item, try to keep things separate. But I think, design-wise and packaging-wise, I think you should source your own where you can as well, because I think you’re in much more control yourself.
Kevin King:
Is it better to use stock packaging or is it better to actually custom design something from scratch, like with 3D CAD software and everything? I’ve been to Cosmo Prof, which is a big beauty show in the space, like it’s at the Mandalay Bay, a huge show like 5,000 exhibitors in beauty, but there’s a whole section of like 30 or 40 companies that just there’s just a bunch of empty boxes and empty bottles and all kinds of stuff. Is that the best way to do it or do you prefer to actually come up with your own very unique packaging and create the die cuts and all that kind of stuff?
Kitty:
I can create the die cuts myself, but I think if the supplier already has a die cut, it’s absolutely fine, and then it’s down to the materials. So I really go to town with the materials instead. You know, I don’t need to redesign something that’s just going to be a box that say, for example, a powder. You know, I buy a lot of beauty products and they all come in very simple boxes. There’s every now and then you might get something a bit more special and uniquely designed. Generally, perfume bottles are quite unique, but there’s a lot of beauty packaging. That’s quite straightforward and I don’t think the customer actually expects it as well. Depending on the price of the product as well. So if it’s like a mid-range, so it’s not a luxury brand or anything, and your product, your makeup, is mid-range, I don’t think this the customer will say oh, you know, this is a cheap box. I think if it’s nicely designed and it’s got a good logo and the layout’s great, um, I don’t think that really matters too much. I think, when it certain products aren’t, that they don’t need to be overly designed, they don’t need to go to town, but you don’t need to spend a big budget on it, and you know, and if you’re a luxury brand, then they might put a little bit more. But generally I buy luxury brands as well and it’s like oh okay, it’s nothing special. They might just have a foiled, blocked logo on it and nothing. It’s the same carton, there’s nothing special about it. So I think you know, depending on your product, I think you have to think about where, where to draw the line in terms of getting a unique die cut done. So it really depends on the brand owner as well.
Kevin King:
And it goes beyond just physical products too. I mean you can do this in anything, in food, in everything. I mean there’s a cookie place here in Austin called Tiff’s Treats and these cookies are like $2, $2.50 a piece and they’re freshly made. It’s a chain. They turn it into a chain, but you go in and you choose, you know, a dozen cookies or something. They give you this really nice foil imprinted box. It says Tiff Treats at the top and they always put a ribbon around it and they tie the ribbon in a certain way. It’s like a blue ribbon that’s tied around it. So they present it to you almost like a gift with two hands. They present it to you and here’s your box of cookies. It’s not just like here’s some cookies at the bakery or something. It’s all part of the experience. Sometimes, when I go in there to grab some cookies, I just tell them I don’t need the ribbon because all I’m going to do is get in the car and rip the thing off and get in there and get a cookie out for the drive home. Packaging all these little things actually matter and because they do that, because I feel like I’m getting something of higher value in my mind, I justify I’m willing to pay $2.50 a cookie or whatever, instead of going down to the local supermarket and getting them for $0.30 a piece too. And it’s a better product inside too. Where do you get your inspiration? Or for, do you just go and just wander around shops, or do you look online and you look at magazines? Where do you get your inspiration for your design?
Kitty:
I get from different places. I do like to shop around in department stores and stuff. I do love looking at packaging physically so I can see how it’s printed, how it feels and sometimes how it opens as well. But I get a lot of inspiration online so I do go on Pinterest a lot, again Pinterest, Instagram, um, and looking online generally for packaging, um things as well as packaging shows. I do go a lot to a lot of packaging shows every year and to see if there’s any newness and generally there’s one or two things that are different. But you know I’m generally online a lot and you can find so much on Pinterest now you just type it in or even on Google. But that’s my go-to place if I don’t have time to go to shows and things. But there is so much creativity and you think you’ll click on one thing and if you use Pinterest, you know you can create boards, you can save boards so you can save these pictures into there and they keep suggesting more pictures of the same thing so you could ask what kind of category or what kind of packaging you’re looking for and I’m just stuffing all these boards with all these ideas and crazy packaging and you’ll get so much inspiration from there as well, and some things are so simple. Even a brown box can look amazing, and it really depends how you designed it as well. So you know there’s savings in terms of using different materials and cheaper materials, but it’s the way it’s designed, it’s the way it’s printed and you know it’s how. You know how the customer will see as well, and I think definitely you know my inspiration comes from all over, all over.
Kevin King:
Sometimes packaging doesn’t have to get like she said, doesn’t have to be complicated. A brown box with a, or even a simple white box with some gold foil or embossing or something on it is as simple as that can make something really stand out. I mean, there’s all kinds of little small things you can do, or just putting, putting a UV coating on something, or just changing the paper from 12 point to 14 point, or there’s so much you can do. So for Pinterest, is it? Do you actually collect physical samples too? Do you save? Do you have like one? I see a door behind you. Is there one of these closets? Like just you open it up? There’s boxes of all kinds of stuff going to fall out on you.
Kitty:
It’s all under here.
Kevin King:
It’s all under the desk.
Kitty:
Yeah, you can’t see it, but yeah, I have boxes around me and under there. I cannot help it. I have to swing tickets and bags as well. You know, when you go shopping, I collect bags as well from. I’ve had bags from like 30 years. You know, um, I’m a bit of a hoarder when it comes to packaging and I just love it. If I see something I like, I always hold on to it. Um, you know, there’s this recent this mascara I had I glitz. The actual stick itself is glittered, so it’s glittered all around, but the box itself was glittered. So I thought, well, that’s different. So I kept hold of that. I don’t know why. But and then there’s particular boxes that have different openings or the way they’ve actually been cut or scored, and having a product, particular product, inserted in, and I think, oh, that’s different. I’ve not seen that. So I keep hold of that in case that it comes up for a project or a client that needs something similar. And I always keep things for inspiration, things around me. Um, but yeah, I I do like to keep my eyes open and because I do buy a lot of stuff and you know, it’s great, I love it, and I have so much that I just want to use. I have all this product packaging under my desk and I can’t wait. And I also do see a lot of suppliers as well. So they give me a lot of things. Oh, that’s a nice candle box. Oh, I like the feel of that. And you know a lot of beauty packaging as well. So you know, I do hoard a lot of things and I do take away a lot of things from suppliers as well.
Kevin King:
There’s something else I think a lot of people miss, when it comes to packaging too, is the actual user experience of unboxing. And so you have the nice package and maybe you’ve got the nice texture and the nice printing and the nice design, but when they open that box and take the lid off and there’s I don’t know an electronic device or something in there and you can’t even get your fingers around it to get it out because it’s in there so tight or you’re having to turn the box over and like bang it on the table to make the thing fall out or something. The people that actually go that extra step and they put little like hooks or they put like little. You know we used to do this with baseball cards. We’d take a piece of tape like scotch tape and just fold it over, and we put one piece of the tape on the edge of the paper and then fold over the other part in half, so that’s like it’s not sticky anymore, it’s like on it but you could use as a handle to grab and lift out. There’s lots of little things like that that are part of packaging too, right?
Kitty:
Absolutely. And whilst we’re talking about packaging, I received something today Actually it’s called MD Hair actually but I bought it and I thought, oh, it’s quite expensive. So I thought, oh, it’s for a hair product. And I opened it up and then it was you get the card, but the actual. Can you see that? The actual packaging, the products itself? There was nothing to hold these things in. So I was quite disappointed. Usually you would have some sort of card inside to hold them in, and this wasn’t cheap either. So you know, you get the lovely box and it’s like, oh, that was a bit underwhelming because you know I thought, well, it would be nice to present it, but it’s not. But you know that’s the thing. You know customer experience, because I bought a lot of things that I opened up and, you know, sent through the post and you know, you expect it to be. Especially if you paid a bit more money for it, you expect it to be nicely presented and getting that whole unboxing experience and that was not pleasant. So it’s thinking about that. If you’re selling a product that has multiple items in there, or even just the one it needs to be held in and in the post, it might have just flown around in the box, it could have got damaged or leaked as well. So it’s thinking about the protection of it.
Kevin King:
It’s also thinking about little extras. I mean, with UGC, right now there’s tons of unboxing videos, especially when it comes to toys and stuff, and if you get creative with your packaging, it can help you go viral. Actually, I mean, if you approach your packaging from a UGC creator influencer point of view, it actually could help you a lot in that regard as well. But another thing that’s really cool in when it comes to packaging is people don’t think about extras. Sometimes, when you buy electronics, they may have the plug where it’s for the UK, it’s for the US and it’s for Europe and you just swap out the back so they’ve got all three devices in there. That’s one thing, but a lot of times people will include an extra screw or they’ll include a little brush, a cleaning brush, or include a little pad or one of the guys that I used to buy back in the day when, before everything was digital. We buy beta tapes to do our video productions on, you know, to pop into the camera. The supplier was in Pennsylvania and they ship them down to me in Texas and they would include just a package of little M&Ms, one of those little packages like you get at Halloween, like a small sample size, but just the fact of putting that in there. So putting a surprise in the package I’m not talking about like the example you just gave, where there’s a card on top, but putting a surprise Maybe that company could have put like a little one-ounce sampler size of one of their other products in there as a bonus with a little bow on it or something like that. There’s a lot of cool stuff that you can do beyond just actual design of the artwork or design of the box as well.
Kitty:
Yeah, absolutely, it’s getting that extra little bit extra. And I think, oh, I didn’t, I wasn’t expecting that. And you know I bought something in the states a while back and it was, um, I think it was to do with cameras and things that I bought for my husband and it came with an extra little, um little dinosaurs, these little plastic dinosaurs, and I kept ordering from them. They kept sending me different little dinosaurs, but it was really cute. But you know, I had to wait a long time for the product to come from America. But you know, it’s just those little things you didn’t expect. So I had them lined up on my desk. But you know, and again you know, buying something from other brands and that you do get sweeties sometimes and that is an added bonus. You don’t expect it. It doesn’t cost a lot either. But just think about what that experience the customer’s getting. It’s like that joy. You just, oh, you’ve really made their day. I’ve got a little surprise in here and, yeah, it’s those little extras um really makes a difference. It doesn’t have to be a lot, it can be something so simple. You know, it could be a sticker, extra little stickers and stuff you know, um, that they get inside their packaging and they could stick them around for whatever you know. However you want to design them, whether they’ve got reminders and stuff. But yeah, I think you know you can do so much.
Kitty:
You know, within the unboxing experience and in packaging in general, there are so many things, even little hidden tabs. Sometimes you open a box I can’t remember which brand it was. You open a box and then inside you kind of got peel away or peel and reveal something and it’s like oh, I didn’t think, you know that, I didn’t, wasn’t expecting that and it’s just even something like that. It’s not even you don’t have to spend a giveaway, you know it’s just in, already inserted into the box. But something like that is a surprise they weren’t expecting, and I think that’s what you need to do more in packaging.
Kevin King:
So if I’m an e-commerce seller and I’m like I’m listening to this and like, uh, Kitty, Kevin, this sounds cool. I want to up my game on packaging, but I don’t have a clue what to do. All I know is what the supplier can give me. What should I do? Should I start looking on Pinterest? Should I start buying my competition? Should I start marketing? Should I contact you and say help, because I’m selling? Let’s say I’m selling a dog leash, a basic product, and everybody else, all my other competitors, are shipping it in a plastic bag because it’s just a dog leash and nobody gives a shit about the packaging on a dog leash, or do they? So I mean, my ex-wife bought a Tiffany’s dog collar or dog leash. No dog leash, it didn’t come in no damn plastic bag. It came in a Tiffany blue box all packaged up. So if I’m selling a dog leash and I want to up my game on the packaging, what do I do?
Kitty:
You can look yourself. But come to me. I have actually designed dog leashes as well packaging for dog leashes. But I mean, if clients come to me, I will actually do the work for them. So I would go and look at competitors for you your existing competitors and also outside of your arena as well, plus what other kind of packagings you do. And often I’ve worked with clients with a different array of products and often I come back when I present to them this is what I, coming up with ideas and I show them their competitors. These are your competitors and then some, and then this is what you can do with this type of packaging, and sometimes it’s not even you know. Probably it’s something completely out of that category, some completely random packaging that they have never thought of. Oh my god, I really like you know. So I will come out with the extraordinary for the client. Obviously, I have budget in mind as well, so there are is a different levels of budget mid-range and then a bit more wacky, and if you’ve got a bit more budget to spend.
Kitty:
But generally I cover everything and looking at what can be done and can’t be done and making sure that it’s always better than whatever the competition is even the top of the top of the range as well. So I do make sure that you know, everything is covered and generally they’re not disappointed and they’re like, oh, what do we do now? So then I, you know, I break it down and I give them their options, design it with their logos, and you know, and then they can go from there really, and it’s really sort of picking my brain. I’m here to problem solve, so that’s what I do for people and I generally think out of the box and not just the traditional designs that you would expect. Um, so yeah, I think definitely, you know, not just myself. I mean, I, I’m very good at what I do, but you know, reach out to other designers as well, because they do have ideas and it generally you might not think of that as well. So, yeah.
Kevin King:
Do you help them source where to actually get the packaging made as well, or do you work within the parameters of whatever factory they’ve already got?
Kitty:
um, depending. If the brand owners want to work with their factory, so I can work with them, but I would design anything for them anyway. So, but if they have templates, then I work with that, or if I’ve designed things off from scratch, so I’ve created my own templates as well. But I think generally I would source it with their supply firstly, but I also have contacts as well, so I do know factories that can source and make them for them as well.
Kevin King:
So I know a lot of people probably listening to this. This sounds good, but this sounds like something that what was it? Ted Baker? No, what was it?
Kitty:
Yeah, Ted Baker, I worked with Ted Baker, so I worked for lots of factories.
Kevin King:
It sounds like something that Ted Baker, one of these brands that a lot of money, would spend to do. I’m just some little e-com guy trying to make a buck on Amazon. What’s this going to cost me to actually have really good design done?
Kitty:
You know what, the bigger the company, the more tighter they are with the budgets. I had really low budgets to work with. I had to really sort of make sure that. You know I’d want to spend a lot but you know it’s down to the materials and stuff and I would have to get it signed off, but generally they would keep the margins low as possible, um. So you know it’s working with the, the supplier, um to see how well they can. You know I used to have to negotiate a lot. It’s like I really need to make this bag this is a Christmas like I want LED lights in it as well, which it cost us a pound. That the bag actually cost a pound to make, which is not. I mean, this is like 10 years ago, but you know it’s still no 10 more than 10 years ago, 15 years ago. But you know that’s quite a lot for spending on a bag. You buy the clothes and you, but you go away with a bag with LED lights. It’s a Christmas tree and it has LED lights. That would be like yeah, and then the customer would come into the store thinking, oh, do I have to pay for the bag? Because no, no, you just take it away. You can just, it’s great, you buy your clothes from Ted Baker and you go away, walk away with this bag, with these lights, and it was. You know, it was great working with the suppliers like that, but I managed to get it down to a pound per bag, which you know we probably ordered about 20,000 bags or maybe more, you know, and then we had obviously different sizes as well, so the larger size would have the lights, the smallest wouldn’t. But you know, it’s just really working with your budgets and what you can afford and seeing what kind of reactions you want from your customers as well.
Kevin King:
So what kind of fees? Do you work on a project basis, or you work on an hourly basis? Or what am I looking at if I come to you and forget about the manufacturing of it? I just want a cool package for my dog leash and I’m willing to spend a couple bucks and we’ll sort that out for the actual design work and the concepts and the research. What am I looking at? What’s a range there that I might be looking at that’s going to cost me?
Kitty:
As in price range?
Kevin King:
Yeah or just your services alone.
Kitty:
For my services. So I mean my packaging. Well, for one say, for example, it’s just one packaging design, because if you’ve got variations then it will change as well. But for just one particular packaging, I charge from, I’m doing it in pounds, from £950 for a basic design like layouts and stuff using your logos. I’m not designing logos, it’s designs, um, uh, ideas, concepts, um, from there. But it really depends. If you want me to create a template for you, then I charge 250 pounds per template on top and then you know that that’s included with my design time already in there with ideas and stuff. But it really depends on that.
Kevin King:
That’s not bad.
Kitty:
No, I I’m very fair because these are rates for Amazon sellers actually. So, um, I charge a fair rate for Amazon sellers because I know they’re on a budget and I enjoy what I do and I really want to give them great designs. And obviously, if they want logo designs and branding guidelines because I do guidelines and everything that’s a completely different package. But packaging is from, so I guess it’s $100 and something in USD, but it’s from that. From £950 onwards, it really depends. If you’ve got variations of things, it can be more, and then I work out how much time it’s going to create. You know if you’ve got um, I’ve recently worked with a tea brand and they had a new packaging design. I designed it. They had 16 variations of different organic teas and stuff. So I had I actually illustrated the designs of the actual um ingredients as well, so I illustrated those. I’ve got the designs but I didn’t have the design logo but it was creating all that, so that was a completely different cost. So I worked out to be much more generous than I should do. I didn’t work out as per package. I didn’t think actually it’s going to take me so many days now or a couple of weeks to design. So it really depends. But I don’t charge the earth for it. I do agency style projects and quality. But you know I’m when I work with you know the, the brand owners, I I’m one-to-one with them. I give them exactly what they need um and I’m always contactable. So it’s you know I enjoy what I do and I just love it. So it’s not, it’s not it’s less about the cost. It’s about really giving them quality um design and And I do, you know, I do love working with Amazon sellers.
Kevin King:
Do you do any testing, like with PickFu or any of the other platforms, where come up with three or four concepts per design and maybe the client goes and does it or you do it yourself and like get some feedback?
Kitty:
The client will do it themselves. I will give them a couple of designs and they’ve taken designs away and gone to PickFu and asked oh this one, I’m not sure about that, and what color you know. So I’ve given variations and all logo designs and stuff and they pick the best ones that they think, but I don’t get involved in terms of which you know which designs they should go for. I mean, I might have a personal preference, but it’s down to the brand owner as well. I might suggest, if I really think strongly that actually I really think this works, then I would let the owner know.
Kevin King:
So how important is it for packaging to be on brand, because a brand has a brand identity and if a brand’s done proper branding, they have a brand book and a brand, you know a font guide and the color guide and the logo is always going to be points three millimeters from the left side or all these little things. And a lot of people don’t pay attention to that, especially e-commerce sellers that pay attention to this consistency from their packaging, to their website, to their marketing, to their emails, to their social media. How important is that to be consistent across the board on that?
Kitty:
Well, that’s what a brand is. If you’re not consistent, you’re not a brand. You have to be talking the same language across everything visual, everything, verbal. So you know you have to, I mean, I do brand audits, design audits, to see everything like you’ve just mentioned emails, your social media, what does the packaging look like? What does it look on your website? How is it all translating into your brand? And I think a lot of Amazon sellers get it wrong, because I see a lot of things that go wrong. It’s like, oh, that’s completely different from that and your logo is different. You know the having a brand guideline, the brand bible that tells you this is how you should be doing things. And a lot of um sellers go backwards. They create their logo and stuff and they think, oh, that’s enough, I know that these colors, that’s it. They don’t have a brand story, they don’t really know what their mission is or their vision and knowing all the rest of things about the logo. Because I work with some brand owners that don’t know much about brand guidelines and then they’ve got about five different logos I thought, no, I can’t do that. And they said, well, can you just move the brand name away from the icon that’s part of the logo to sit somewhere else? I can’t really do that because that’s your logo. Well, I can’t take it apart. So it’s really trying to educate um brand owners about you know the branding and how important it is to be consistent, because if you’re seen somewhere on, say, social media, your logo is different from what’s on your packaging and what’s on Amazon. They were thinking, well, that’s a completely different brand and, you know, are people going to trust you because you’re not? You know, you’re not cohesive, there’s nothing’s consistent. So you really want to build that reputation, that brand trust as well, and that perception that you are a serious brand.
Kevin King:
Can you describe one of the coolest packages that you’ve ever designed?
Kitty:
The coolest package?
Kevin King:
One of those you’re like, really proud of. You’re like, oh, this was an amazing product. This is so much fun and it turned out so cool, and I’m like this is my showpiece of what I can do.
Kitty:
Oh, Kevin, I’m really critical about what I design. I’m always trying to design the next best thing. I like my designs, what I do, but I’m always looking for the next best thing. So what I’ve done in the past I’ve done a lot of great things for Ted Baker, a lot of packagings for them.
Kevin King:
Tell me something cool.
Kitty:
I mean, I did this whole this range.
Kevin King:
Inspire me, give me where you’re going.
Kitty:
So they had a sub-brand called Endurance the suits, Endurance suits. They had different types of suits. One was called the connoisseur, one was like for the daytime, so one was more casual. They had different names for each of them. So I created CD-ROMs. I actually created a video with working with a videographer. There’s a swing ticket so you’d go in and it was a concept store we created I helped create actually so they had these robots like iRobot back there we’re talking about back in 2003, 2004. We launched this concept store in London and they had these iRobot things and we created a lot of things around it that it would be an interactive store that you’ll just go to this um console. You’ll put this card in which I designed with the packaging. It just looks like a really cool black, sleek design with some laminated lines and you put your details in your sizing and stuff and this, this thing, will come through the store in behind from the storeroom and it’ll drop your suit off and you know you have all these things um in store. But so I designed the, the boxes, the bags, um, everything that was interactive in the store, um, through to the machine consoles, the screens, what they would look like as well. So we’d see, you know, what would they do. But you know it was all conceptual but it worked. We had, you know, it was there for quite quite a few years but the suits were amazing anyway, they existed. But we created this whole thing around being technological and great back then and it was great.
Kitty:
So you know I’m, you know this is one of the things I had a hand in, um, but you know I always love designing things and I guess I worked for Cath Kidston after Ted Baker for six years. So Cath Kidston is a very British brand, florals, homeware stuff, um, if you see polka dots and florals, you know that’s Calf Kidston and she was a very British brand and she was lovely. So I rebranded for her. When I joined I went into the warehouse the first day in the warehouse and when I joined Cath Kidston I looked at everything, all the tags, all the labels, nothing was consistent. So it was just like, oh no. So I came back and said, look, we have to change it because it’s not Cath Kidston limited London. It was at Cath Kidston or is it Cath Kids? You know it was all. Nothing was consistent. So we had to bring that all back in. I rebranded everything, wrote the brand guidelines with um. You know the, the brand um consultant that came in and Cath herself and redesigned everything that was packaging wise the swing tickets, um. And then I actually got to work with Apple as well, because we had a lot of um. Cath Kidston had a lot of Apple products like iPad covers and phone cases, so I worked with Apple in terms of designing the packaging for them, so it was in their stores as well. So it was a lot of things that you know I could get involved with and that was really fun, um, and I guess it’s just having a lot of creative fun in what I do.
Kitty:
Um. I don’t have a particular favorite because there’s, al of them are so unique and different as well, and you know I have a lot of sellers and Amazon sellers that I work with and some of them I’m currently still working on, so I can’t really mention it um, because I don’t know if they’re live yet. Um, but you know there’s a lot of things I just want to get even more creative with. But you know budgets are, you know, a constraint as well, so I can’t create something too wacky and out there, and I’d love to work for a brand that would have the budget. Like you know, I could just create something amazing.
Kevin King:
That’s awesome. So you did a lot of point of purchase display and a lot of interactive exhibits and stuff as well. That’s cool In-store stuff. That’s awesome. Well, Kitty, if people wanted to reach out to you and say this sounds good, I want her to take a stab at designing something for me. What’s the best way for them to do that?
Kitty:
Okay, it’s probably best to just go to my website, that’s mebranddesign.com.
Kevin King:
Me M-E mebranddesigncom.
Kitty:
That’s correct. And if you really want to contact me, you can just [email protected]. So you know I’m there and you know. If you can’t find me anywhere, then just type in Kitty Lai brand. Kitty Lai brand will come up. You’ll find me somewhere on the Google.
Kevin King:
L-A-I.
Kitty:
L-A-I yes.
Kevin King:
K-I-T-T-Y, L-A-I. Well Kitty, this has been awesome. I really appreciate you coming on and chatting today. This has been cool to geek out on packaging.
Kitty:
Awesome, it’s lovely. I’m so passionate about packaging, so I’m really happy to talk to you today.
Kevin King:
I really appreciate you coming on. It’s been great chatting.
Kitty:
Thank you so much, Kevin. It’s been brilliant, thank you.
Kevin King:
People always eat with their eyes first, and packaging is one of the best places to actually reinforce what someone just bought and that they’ve made the right decision and that they’ve paid the right price for it. Some great stuff here with Kitty. Reach out to her if you are serious about your package design, because she’s one of the best in the space. Tons of experience and she does a really good job. And don’t forget if you haven’t subscribe to my newsletter, billiondollarsellers.com. Brand new issue every Monday and Thursday. We’ll be back again next week with another episode of the AM/PM Podcast. In the meantime, remember, always surprise people with an unexpected gift. Always surprise with an unexpected gift. See you again next week.
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- Trying to Find a New Product? Get the most powerful Amazon product research tool in Black Box, available only at Helium 10! Start researching with Black Box.
- Want to Verify Your Product Idea? Use Xray in our Chrome extension to check how lucrative your next product idea is with over a dozen metrics of data! Download the Helium 10 Chrome Extension.
- The Ultimate Software Tool Suite for Amazon Sellers! Get more Helium 10 tools that can help you optimize your listings and increase sales for a low price! Sign up today!
- Does Amazon Owe YOU Money? Find Out for FREE! If you have been selling for over a year on Amazon, you may be owed money for lost or damaged inventory and not even know it. Get a FREE refund report to see how much you’re owed!
- Check out our other Amazon FBA podcasts including the Serious Sellers Podcast, as well as our Spanish and German versions!
- You can also listen to the AM/PM Podcast on YouTube here!